[A. CALL TO ORDER]
[00:01:39]
>> GET IT STARTED, AND SHE'S GOING TO COME BACK AND
[C. WORK SESSION ITEM]
PROVIDE SOME INFORMATION LATER IN THE PRESENTATION.WITH THAT, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO KAYLA.
>> MEMBERS, MY NAME IS KAYLA WARE, AND I'M CURRENTLY THE TOWN MANAGER OFFICE, INTERN.
I'M CURRENTLY PURSUING MY MASTERS OF PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS IN DENTON.
I AM HONORED TO SPEAK BEFORE YOU TODAY ABOUT THE PRESENT ISSUE OF OPIOIDS AND FENTANYL.
DURING THIS PRESENTATION, THE INTENT OF THE ITEM IS TO DISCUSS THE OPIOID EFFECTS OF THE COMMUNITY AND THE TOWN'S RESPONSE AND THE COORDINATION WITH THE TOWN TO MITIGATE THE HARMFUL EFFECTS OF THE OPIOID USE.
TONIGHT LIKE JAMES SAID, I'LL BE SPEAKING.
WE'LL HAVE OUR CHIEF OF POLICE, DAVID COULON, AND OUR CHIEF OF FIRE, PAUL HENLEY AND JAMES, OUR TOWN MANAGER SPEAKING.
I'LL PASS IT OVER TO CHIEF COULON.
>> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL.
HAPPY TO BE HERE TO PRESENT SOME INFORMATION.
HOPEFULLY, I CAN GIVE YOU A SNAPSHOT OF WHAT THE PD DOES AND HOW WE DEAL WITH SOME OF THESE ISSUES.
REAL QUICK ON OPIOIDS, WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT STUFF THAT'S DERIVED FROM OPIUM.
PEOPLE HAVE BEEN USING OPIOIDS FOR 7,000 YEARS.
IT USED TO JUST BE OPIUM AND THEN IN THE MODERN ERA, MOST OF THE STUFF WE DEAL WITH NOW IS SYNTHETIC.
IT'S JUST SYNTHETIC. PAINKILLERS IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
MOST OF THE DRUGS THAT ARE ABUSED ARE ALL USED MEDICALLY.
IT'S NOT THAT THAT MAKES THEM ABUSED, IT'S ALL THE SIDE EFFECTS OF THE VARIOUS DRUGS. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THE PD ACTUALLY APPROACHES IT.
WE DO INVESTIGATIONS, WE DO PRESENTATIONS, AND WE PROSECUTE PEOPLE BRINGING THE DRUGS INTO THE TOWN.
CURRENTLY UP THERE, YOU'LL SEE FLOWER MOUND WITH DEA, WE USE THE TEXAS LAWS OF MANUFACTURE AND DELIVERY CAUSING SERIOUS BODILY INJURY OR DEATH, AND WE NOW CHARGE DEALERS THAT CAUSE DEATH WITH MURDER.
THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF FEDERAL LAWS.
IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN A FEDERAL INDICTMENT, THE LIST JUST GOES ON AND ON.
SOME OF THE FEDERAL LAWS WE GET PEOPLE INDICTED FOR ARE DRUG TRAFFICKING MONEY LAUNDERING, AS WELL AS A BUNCH OF FIREARMS STATUTES BECAUSE THERE'S ALWAYS A BUNCH OF FIREARMS WITH DRUGS.
WE'RE ABLE TO LEVERAGE ALL THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE DEPUTY DEA AGENTS ON OUR FORCE AND A DEPUTY US MARSHALS.
THEY HAVE BEEN SWORN IN AS FEDERAL OFFICERS, AND WE WORK WITH TASK FORCE WITH THESE AGENCIES, SO IT ACTUALLY BROADENS OUR POWER SO THAT WE CAN USE THE FEDERAL SYSTEM AS WELL.
ANYTHING THAT SAYS SNAPSHOT AT THE TOP, WHAT THAT IS, THAT IS THE LAST 12 MONTHS, JUST TO GIVE YOU A PICTURE OF WHAT WE DO IN A TYPICAL YEAR.
IN THE PAST 12 MONTHS, WE HAVE HAD A FATAL OVERDOSE OF FENTANYL IN FLOWER MOUND.
FORTY NINE-YEAR-OLD BOUGHT IT DOWN IN ELLIS COUNTY.
WE FIGURED OUT WHO IT WAS, AND WE WENT DOWN TO FARRIS, TEXAS AND ARRESTED HIM AND PUT HIM IN JAIL, AND WE CHARGED HIM WITH MURDER.
[00:05:02]
HE IS CURRENTLY WAITING FOR A TRIAL FOR MURDER.ALL THE PICTURES I HAVE IN HERE, THOSE AREN'T GENERIC STOCK PHOTOS.
THOSE ARE PHOTOS FROM OUR INVESTIGATIONS.
I GOT THOSE FROM OUR DRUG DETECTIVES.
RIGHT HERE, YOU'LL SEE THIS PHOTO.
EACH ONE OF THOSE BAGS IS 500 PILLS IN EACH BAG.
THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF ONE OF OUR INVESTIGATIONS.
IT STARTED IN THE HIGH SCHOOL WITH SROS REPORTING IT TO US SAYING, HEY, WE'RE HEARING RUMORS THAT STUDENTS ARE USING FENTANYL IN THE BATHROOM.
WHAT DO WE DO? WE BRING IN THE DEA AND TOGETHER, WE STARTED MAKING CONTROLLED PURCHASES OF FENTANYL ACROSS THE METROPLEX.
FIFTY SEVEN DEFENDANTS HAVE BEEN CHARGED IN THAT CASE.
JUST FOR SUPPLYING IT TO OUR KIDS, YOU CAN SEE THAT WE'RE GOING TO GO AFTER THEM AND WE'RE GOING TO GET THEM.
THAT CASE ALONE GAVE US 29 KILOS OF JUST FENTANYL, A BUNCH OF FIREARMS, 17.6 MILLION PILLS FOR THAT ONE INVESTIGATION, AND WE SEIZED OVER $2,000 IN ASSETS.
JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF THE REACH THAT WE HAVE.
WE GO DOWN TO THE BORDER ON A REGULAR BASIS.
THAT'S HOW FAR AWAY WE WILL GO TO FIGHT FOR THESE CASES AND FIND THESE PEOPLE.
WE INDICT PEOPLE IN OTHER COUNTRIES.
WE ASK FOR EXTRADITION, AND WE'RE ABLE TO DO THAT THROUGH OUR TASK FORCE.
NARCAN. I'M JUST PASSING AROUND NARCAN.
IT'S SURPRISING NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THE LITTLE JAR OF IT.
DID YOU MAKE IT DOWN THERE? I'LL TAKE IT BACK.
THAT'S ALL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, IS JUST THESE LITTLE THINGS.
MOST OFFICERS YOU'LL SEE THEM, THEY CARRY THEM IN THEIR LEG POCKET JUST LIKE I DO.
WE'VE BEEN USING IT SINCE 2012.
WE HAVE NOT PAID FOR NARCAN YET SO WE EITHER USE A STATE GRANT, STATE GRANT RUNS OUT OF MONEY ALL THE TIME, STATE OF TEXAS.
WE'RE ABLE TO LEVERAGE SOME CONNECTIONS WE HAVE WITH NON-PROFITS TO GET IT, BUT BELIEVE ME, IF WE COULDN'T GET IT FROM THEM, I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO FIND BUDGET TO SUPPLY OURSELVES WITH NARCAN.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PLENTY. EIGHTEEN TIMES THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS USED THESE LITTLE SPRAYS IN THE FIELD, AND WE HAVE GIVEN THEM TO PEOPLE THAT WERE OVERDOSING.
FIVE TIMES WE CONFIRMED IT WAS A FENTANYL OVERDOSE AND THAT THEY PROBABLY WERE GOING TO DIE WITHOUT THE NARCAN WE GAVE THEM. IT'S WORKING.
ALL THE OFFICERS CARRY TWO IN THEIR BAGS, ALL THE BEAT OFFICERS DO, AND EVERYBODY CARRIES ONE ON THEIR PERSON.
WHAT WE TELL THEM IS THAT ONE ON YOUR PERSON IS FOR YOU AND YOUR PARTNER.
WHEN YOU RESPOND TO A FENTANYL OVERDOSE, THAT ONE'S FOR YOU.
IN CASE SOMETHING HAPPENS, GRAB ALL THE ONES THAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR BAG AND TAKE THOSE IN.
ALL WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS GET THEM STABLE ENOUGH UNTIL THE FIRE DEPARTMENT GETS THERE.
OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT IS GOING TO BE THERE WITHIN A COUPLE OF MINUTES. PLEASE HAVE A HEAD START.
THAT'S ALL BECAUSE WE'RE ALREADY IN THE CAR.
IF WE CAN JUST AT LEAST GET THE PROCESS STARTED AND LONG ENOUGH FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT TO GET THERE, THERE'S A GREAT CHANCE THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE IT.
WE DO NOT SUPPLY IT TO THE PUBLIC.
THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME.
BUT THE DAY I MADE THIS SLIDE, I WALKED ACROSS THE STREET TO THE PHARMACY NEXT DOOR TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND I WALKED INTO THE PHARMACY AND I SAID, HEY, DO YOU HAVE NARCAN.
THE PHARMACIST SAID, YEAH, WHAT KIND DO YOU WANT? I SAID, IT'S STILL TRUE YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A PRESCRIPTION. SHE SAID, YES.
I SAID, IS THERE AGE LIMIT? SHE'S LIKE, WELL, LET'S TRY, WE RANG IT UP AND IT NEVER ASKED FOR AN ID.
THEY HAD BOXES OF IT BACK IN THE PHARMACY, $44, YOU GET TWO DOSES.
AT THE FRONT OF THE STORE BEHIND THE COUNTER, THEY HAD GENERIC BOXES, SO $20 FOR EACH ONE.
IT IS? TWO PACK, BUT IT'S $40.
THE RUMORS THAT IT'S TOO HARD TO GET OR THAT THEY KEEP RUNNING OUT, WELL, WE'RE NOT SEEING THAT RIGHT NOW.
HERE IS AN EXAMPLE. IT SAYS SNAPSHOT.
THIS IS IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS.
WE HAVE DONE 127 DRUG PRESENTATIONS.
YOU'LL SEE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE VERY BOTTOM, IT SAYS FENTANYL PANELS, ONE IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW AT MARCUS WITH OUR SROS. I DIDN'T ARRANGE THAT.
IT WORKS OUT PERFECTLY. I'M MAKING A PRESENTATION THAT NIGHT, BUT THAT WAS IN THE WORKS FOR A WHILE.
[00:10:02]
WORK FOR US TO DO ALL THESE PRESENTATIONS.WE MAKE PRESENTATIONS TO THE STUDENTS, TO CIVIC CLUBS, TO PARENTS.
ONE OF MY FRIENDS ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO, SHE WORKS AT MARCUS AND SHE SENT ME A PHOTO, HEY, THEY'RE TEACHING US ABOUT DRUGS TODAY, I TOOK PICTURES OF THE SROS AND JUST TEXTED IT TO ME.
I KNOW IT'S BEEN HAPPENING AND THIS IS THE PROOF RIGHT HERE.
ONCE AGAIN, THOSE ARE DRUGS THAT WE ACTUALLY SEIZE ONE DAY IN JUST ONE RAID.
I NEED TO EXPLAIN THE SLIDE A LITTLE BIT.
THAT'S THE WORST OF THE DRUGS.
THOSE GET THE HIGHEST SENTENCES WHEN YOU GET CONVICTED OF THEM.
THAT'S COCAINE, METH, AND THE OPIOIDS ARE UP THERE.
JUST THE SMALLEST AMOUNT OF THAT CAN SEND IT TO A SERIOUS FELONY JUST RIGHT AWAY.
POSSESSION OF ANY OF IT'S A FELONY, BUT YOU CAN GET IN A LOT OF TROUBLE FOR JUST VERY SMALL AMOUNTS.
THE WAY THE FELONY WORK IS TO GET IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF TROUBLE WITH THE MUSHROOMS OR THE THC CONTRATE, YOU WOULD JUST HAVE TO HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH MORE.
IT'S JUST THE SCALE DOWN AND SERIOUSNESS OF HARM FOR THE DRUGS.
IN THE LAST YEAR, WE'VE MADE 58 ARRESTS FOR COCAINE, METH OR OPIOIDS.
TWELVE OF THOSE WERE FENTANYL, ONLY 12.
IT'S NOT THE MOST COMMON DRUG WE MAKE AN ARREST FOR.
IT'S NOT THE ONE WE SEIZE THE MOST OF.
METHAMPHETAMINE AND COCAINE FAR OUTWEIGH OPIOID.
OPIOID RIGHTLY SO GETS A LOT OF ATTENTION, AND WE ARE STARTING TO SEE THE NUMBERS START TO COME DOWN NATIONALLY, ABOUT 10% RIGHT NOW.
10% IS EXCITING, BUT THAT STILL LEAVES US 100,000 PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE FROM IT THIS YEAR.
THEN IT JUST GOES DOWN FROM THEIR VALUE.
THE ONE AT THE BOTTOM DANGEROUS DRUGS, THAT'S JUST ANY KIND OF DRUG THAT'S NOT ALREADY LISTED, THAT'S A PRESCRIPTION, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
YOU CAN SEE WE MAKE A LOT OF ARRESTS FOR DRUGS.
THE CHARGES ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT BECAUSE AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, SOME PEOPLE CARRY MORE THAN ONE TYPE OF DRUG AT A TIME.
WE CHARGE THEM WITH EACH INDIVIDUAL ONE.
THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IS GOING TO COME UP HERE.
THEY HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE OVERALL AMOUNT OF OVERDOSES GOING ON IN THE TOWN, BECAUSE THEY GET CALLED TO WEIGH MORE OF THEM THAN WE DO.
A LOT OF TIMES WE DON'T KNOW THAT SOMEONE'S OVERDOSING BECAUSE NO ONE CALLED US TO TELL US, BUT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT MIGHT HAVE A MEDICAL CALL, GET THERE AND THEN REALIZE IT'S OVERDOSE.
I'LL LET FIRE CHIEF HENLEY COME UP HERE AND TALK.
>> CAN I ASK ONE QUESTION REALLY QUICK THAT I KNEW IT'S ON THIS SLIDE.
WHERE IS HEROIN ON THIS LIST? THIS IS MY IGNORANCE.
>> THANK YOU CHIEF. MAYOR, COUNSEL.
IT'S MY HONOR TO BE HERE THIS EVENING AND THANKS FOR HAVING THIS WORK SESSION TO SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS.
AS CHIEF MENTIONED IN HIS PRESENTATION, WE HAVE NARCAN FOR US AS WELL, AND THAT'S BECAUSE SOMETIMES IF WE DON'T HAVE A GLOVED HAND AND WE TOUCH SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE FENTANYL-LACED, THAT COULD AFFECT OUR OFFICERS AND OUR FIREMEN AND FIRST RESPONDERS AS WELL.
WE MAKE SURE WE KEEP THAT ON HAND.
WE USE NARCAN QUITE A BIT AND AS WE'LL GO THROUGH THIS SLIDE, OUR DATA IS COMING FROM ABOUT FOUR YEARS OF OUR ESO DATA, WHICH IS OUR EPCR OR ELECTRIC PATIENT CARE REPORT THAT WE DO ON EVERY EMS CALL THAT WE HAVE A PATIENT WITH.
AT THE FIRST MEETING, THIS CAME UP, I HAD MY GUYS, MATTER OF FACT, I TEXTED THEM FROM THE BACK ROW BACK THERE AND SAID, HEY, LET'S GET SOME DATA ON WHAT WE'RE SEEING SO I CAN INFORM MR. CHILDERS.
WHEN WE RUN ON A CALL, WE SOMETIMES DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MAY BE.
THE CHIEF COMPLAINT MAY BE SOMETHING ELSE THAN WHAT WE ACTUALLY FIND WHEN WE'RE THERE.
WHEN DRUGS ARE USUALLY INVOLVED, IT COMES ACROSS IN MANY DIFFERENT CALL TYPES, EITHER UNRESPONSIVE OR CPR IN PROGRESS.
IT COULD BE AN OVERDOSE OR AN ATTEMPTED SUICIDE, OR IT COULD BE A SPD, AND A FEW OTHERS THAT WE JUST DON'T KNOW UNTIL WE GET THERE.
WHEN WE LOOK AT OUR PATIENT, WE DO OUR PATIENT ASSESSMENT, WE DO OUR PRIMARY AND SECONDARY ASSESSMENTS, WE'RE LOOKING FOR BREATHING DIFFICULTY, PINPOINT PUPILS.
AGAIN, RESPIRATORY DEPRESSION, CNS OR CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM DEPRESSION, THEY'RE SLOW TO RESPOND.
WHEN IN DOUBT, WE GIVE FENTANYL.
WE GIVE NARCAN TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO HURT, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE OUR FIRST LINE BEFORE WE TRY
[00:15:02]
OTHER THINGS IF THOSE SYMPTOMS ARE JUST RIGHT.WE'VE ADMINISTERED 169 TIMES SINCE JANUARY OF 2020.
>> WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE OVERDOSE, WE'RE LOOKING AT 145 CALLS THAT WERE DESIGNATED AS AN OVERDOSE CALL.
THEN WHEN WE GET THERE WE'RE FINDING 38 OF THOSE, WE KNEW WERE AN OPIOID OR A POTENTIAL OPIOID.
THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH, WE'LL NEVER KNOW THE WHOLE STORY.
WE HAVE TO GO THERE AND TREAT THEM.
WE'RE TRYING TO TREAT THEM BY WHAT THEY'RE TELLING US, AND WE REACT APPROPRIATELY BASED ON WHAT WE'RE TOLD AND WHAT WE SEE.
SEVEN OF THEM, HAVE BEEN 18 AND UNDER WITH THE YOUNGEST BEING 14, BUT THE RANGE GOES UP FROM 14-49, WE'VE SEEN IN SOME OF OUR CALLS OVER THIS FOUR-YEAR LITTLE BRIEF WINDOW WE'RE LOOKING AT, AND THEN OTHER OPIOIDS UP TO AGE 60 IS WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN OUR COMMUNITY.
WE'VE BEEN REAL AS CHIEF MENTIONED, HAD A POSITIVE RESPONSE FROM SOME OF OUR NARCAN DELIVERY.
A COUPLE OF THREE THAT WE'VE DOCUMENTED HAD CPR IN PROGRESS, AND WE'RE ABLE TO REVIVE THAT PATIENT USING NARCAN AND RESUSCITATION METHODS.
SADLY, THREE OTHERS DID NOT MAKE IT WITH A KNOWN FENTANYL OR OPIOID USE.
WE CAN GET THIS FOR ABOUT $18.
WE GIVE IT IM, WHICH IS INTRAMUSCULAR OR IV.
WE HAVE TO DO THAT IN A VERY SLOW PUSH OR THE PATIENT CAN GET REALLY VIOLENT IF YOU PUSH IT TOO FAST.
IT'S KNOWN AS OPIOID, I CAN'T TALK, AN OPIOID AGONIST.
I COUNTERACTS WHAT THE EFFECTS OF OPIOID ARE, AND THEY CAN AGAIN GET VERY VIOLENT OR LOTS OF VOMITING IF YOU GIVE IT TOO FAST.
WE TRY TO DO IT AS OUR PROTOCOL DICTATES, WHICH IS 0.4-2 MILLIGRAMS. THE NARCAN THAT COMES IN THE NASAL SPRAY IS SUPER EASY, AND WE TRAIN ON THAT AS WELL.
WE HAVE A LITTLE ATOMIZER, WE CAN PUT ON HOURS TO DO THAT IF WE CAN'T GET AN IV OR CAN'T GET A SHOT IN.
ALSO, WE HAVE STARTED OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS PUTTING THAT IN OUR HANDS-ONLY CPR TRAINING, 70 AND OUR FIRE MARSHALS TEAM, JASON BOJACK, THEY GO OUT WHEN WE DO ANY CPR TRAINING, THAT'S JUST ANOTHER COMPONENT THAT WE PUT IN THERE.
IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON AND YOU SEE SOME OF THESE SIGNS, GIVE NARCAN, AND WE TELL THEM WHERE THEY CAN GET IT AND HOW TO USE IT.
WE'VE SHOWN THAT NASAL INHALER SO THEY CAN DO THAT.
THESE ARE FROM THAT FOUR-YEAR WINDOW.
THESE ARE THE FENTANYL ONES THAT WE KNOW THAT WE RAN ON FROM OUR CALL TYPES AND OUR CALL NOTES.
BUT AGAIN, THERE ARE SO MANY MORE THAT WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS, BUT NARCAN WAS SUCCESSFUL AND SOMETIMES IT'S NOT, SOMETIMES IT IS.
BUT WITH OUR DATA, WE JUST GIVE IT TO ENSURE BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO HURT ANYTHING.
FROM OUR SIDE, WE ARE, AS CHIEF SAID, ON THE RESPONSE TIME, AND WE SURE APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT CHIEF AND HIS MEN AND WOMEN DO BECAUSE THEY'RE REALLY MAKING A DIFFERENCE.
WHEN I CAME HERE, THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I NOTICED BECAUSE I'M USED TO SUPPLYING PD WITH NARCAN, USED TO TRAINING PD ON NARCAN, BUT THEY'VE BEEN SO FAR AHEAD OF THE CURVE FOR YEARS BECAUSE THEY LED THE WAY IN THIS COUNTY DECADES AGO.
KUDOS TO THEM. BUT IT'S A GREAT TEAM IN TERMS OF WHEN THEY KNOW SOMETHING AND WE KNOW SOMETHING, WE TRY TO SHARE THAT INFORMATION FOR THE BEST OUTCOME OF THE PATIENT.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME? IF NOT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO OUR TOWN MANAGER.
>> WHEN IT SAYS NO NARCAN, DOES THAT MEAN THE PATIENT WAS DECEASED AND YOU DIDN'T ADMINISTER?
>> THIS ONE COULD MEAN MANY THINGS.
THERE'S SEVERAL ON HERE THAT WE GOT THERE, THEY WERE NOT SYMPTOMATIC.
THE 14-YEAR-OLD, THAT WAS A PRETTY SAD CASE.
BUT SOME IN HERE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY SYMPTOMS. WE GOT INTO THE HOSPITAL, WE GAVE A FULL REPORT.
SOME OF THEM THAT WE LOOKED AT AND IT WAS A MISINFORMATION AND SOME OF THOSE THINGS.
BUT AGAIN, THESE ARE CALL NOTES RESPONDING TO A KNOWN FENTANYL.
>> IS NARCAN STRICTLY FOR OPIOIDS?
>> IF YOU HAD METH OR COCAINE OVERDOSE, YOU'D HAVE A DIFFERENT ACTION.
>> COCAINE IS A STIMULANT, SOME OF THOSE ARE STIMULANTS.
AGAIN, WE TRY NOT TO DIAGNOSE WHAT IT WAS OR IF THEY SAID ONE THING OR ANOTHER,
[00:20:01]
IF WE'RE SEEING CERTAIN THINGS, ESPECIALLY RESPIRATORY DEPRESSION.THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT AIRWAY IS PROTECTED, AND THAT NARCAN CAN REDUCE THOSE EFFECTS OF THE OPIOID AND COUNTERACT THE EFFECTS OF THAT OPIOID.
>> BUT YOU HAVE TO DIAGNOSE IN THE MOMENT IF WE THINK THIS IS AN OPIOID, AND THEN WE'LL TREAT WITH NARCAN.
IS THERE ANY RISK TO TREATING WITH NARCAN?
>> NO. IT'S A PRETTY BENIGN DRUG, AND SO EVEN IF IT IS ANOTHER DRUG, WE JUST DON'T KNOW.
WE'RE GOING TO GIVE IT IF THE SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS ARE THERE ON OUR PRIMARY IMPRESSION.
THE GUYS DO A WONDERFUL JOB OF SEEING THAT.
OUR MEDICAL DIRECTOR IS WONDERFUL AT COMING IN AND GIVING SOME REFRESHER COURSES, WHAT HE'S SEEING AT THE HOSPITAL AND THOSE THINGS, THE PREVALENCE OF OPIOIDS AND OTHERS.
JUST AS CHIEF MENTIONED, THERE'S A HOST OF OTHERS THAT WE RUN ON AND GIVE NARCAN AS WELL.
YOU JUST DON'T KNOW THESE DAYS, IT COULD BE SOMETHING LIKE COCAINE, BUT IT'S LACED.
YOU JUST DON'T KNOW, SO WE TRY TO BE PROACTIVE.
>> ONE OF THE POSSIBLE, MAYBE THE OPTIONS WE'LL CONSIDER LATER IS TRYING TO MAKE NARCAN MORE AVAILABLE.
WHERE ARE THESE HAPPENING? WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO DEAL WITH THESE PATIENTS ON THIS CHARGE?
>> WE'RE USUALLY FINDING THEM AT HOME.
SOMETIMES WHEN IT'S A MORE SERIOUS SUICIDAL TYPE CALL.
SADLY, WE HAD ONE OF OUR BATTALION CHIEFS SON USE FENTANYL AND OVERDOSED JUST THIS LAST YEAR.
IT'S VERY SAD, SO IT HITS VERY CLOSE TO HOME.
SOMETIMES IT'S AWAY FROM HOME.
SOMETIMES IT'S WHERE THEY PLAN TO COMMIT SUICIDE.
SOMETIMES I THINK WE'VE BEEN TO THE SCHOOL ONCE OR TWICE.
I DON'T HAVE A DETAIL ON ALL THESE, BUT MOSTLY PARENTS CALL.
>> WELL, I'M TRYING TO EVALUATE IF THERE'S ANY SENSE.
WE HAVE THIS AED MAP OF ALL THE AEDS AROUND TOWN.
PEOPLE SOMETIMES HAVE A HEART CONDITION OUT AND THEY NEED SOMEONE TO JUMP INTO ACTION.
DO WE NEED THE SAME THING FOR NARCAN? DO WE NEED A NARCAN BOX RIGHT OVER THERE BY THE AED IN TOWN HALL SO THAT IF SOMETHING HAPPENS, THE PUBLIC CAN JUMP INTO ACTION.
IS THERE VALUE IN THAT OR IS THIS HAPPENING AT HOME AND THERE'S NOT REALLY ANY POINT BECAUSE THE PUBLIC'S NOT GOING TO BE IN A POSITION TO ASSIST?
>> THIS IS JUST PAUL'S OPINION, I THINK FOR ME, EDUCATION OF PARENTS IS VITAL AND CRUCIAL.
WHETHER THAT'S AT THE SCHOOL OR WHETHER THAT'S US HOSTING SOMETHING AT THE LIBRARY AND TEACHING PARENTS WHAT SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS TO LOOK OUT FOR WHEN AN OVERDOSE HAPPENS, AND WORKING WITH CHIEF TO MAYBE LOOK AT SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS OF SOMEBODY USING THE DRUG, THAT'S NOT IN OUR PURVIEW, IN TERMS OF BEHAVIORS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
I THINK WHEN WE EDUCATE OUR PARENTS, YOU GET A BIG PART OF THE POPULATION HERE IN FLOWER MOUND, THAT COULD DO SOMETHING MORE EFFECTIVE.
I DON'T KNOW LIKE AN AED, SOMEBODY WOULD RUN AND GET THE FENTANYL AND GET THE NARCAN AND GIVE IT.
BUT THEY MAY. I DON'T KNOW THAT ACCESSIBILITY.
THEN BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH EXPIRATION DATES AND SOME OF THOSE THINGS AND THEN CONSTANTLY REPLACING THOSE, THAT WOULD BE A BURDENSOME TASK FOR THE TOWN TO TAKE ON, NOT SAYING THAT WE SHOULDN'T DO THAT.
HAPPY TO HELP IN ANY WAY WE CAN.
BUT I THINK IF WE EDUCATE THE PARENTS AND EVEN SHOW THEM EITHER HOW TO GET IT OR HELP THEM GET THEIR HANDS ON NARCAN, THAT WOULD BE A HUGE BENEFIT.
NOW YOU HAVE SOME OLDER PATIENTS THAT WE'VE SHOWN IN HERE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU WOULD COUNTERACT THAT EXCEPT MORE EDUCATION THAT WE'RE DOING.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT WOULD BE AS VALUABLE AS GETTING THE INFORMATION INTO THE HANDS OF PARENTS.
>> I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR DUE DILIGENCE FROM OUR EMERGENCY SERVICES.
ME BEING IN HEALTH CARE, I WORK WITH PATIENTS WHO HAVE PRESCRIBED FENTANYL PATCHES.
I HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THE SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS OF FENTANYL OVERDOSE IMMEDIATELY SO THEY CAN GET TREATED WITH NARCAN.
FROM THAT STANDPOINT, I KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR.
I KNOW HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO GET EVERYBODY EDUCATED ON THOSE SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS BECAUSE IT ISN'T ALWAYS EASY TO KNOW WHAT THOSE SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS ARE AND TO THINK, OKAY, I NEED TO RUN AND GET THE NARCAN.
BUT I WONDER IF IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, SINCE OUR SROS HAVE THAT AVAILABLE, ARE THEY CREATING A SYSTEM WHERE THE STUDENTS ACTUALLY HAVE
[00:25:04]
AN ACTIVE GROUP THAT HELPS SUPPORT KIDS THAT ARE GETTING ON THESE DRUGS? ARE THEY ACTIVELY? I KNOW WE'RE EDUCATING THE PARENTS, BUT IS THERE A WAY TO CREATE SOME COMMITTEE WITH STUDENTS THAT HELP TO HAVE A SUPPORT GROUP FOR THESE THAT ARE ON DRUGS? BECAUSE SOMETIMES EVEN THOUGH THE PARENTS ARE EDUCATED ON THIS, DO WE NEED TO GO A STEP FURTHER AND HAVE THE STUDENTS EDUCATED IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY'RE AN ADVOCATE FOR STUDENTS HAVING A PROBLEM? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?>> YES. I COULD NOT SCRIPT A BETTER SEGUE BECAUSE I THINK MR. CHILDERS IS GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT OUR SCHOOLS ARE DOING TO COMBAT THIS. JAMES.
>> BEFORE WE PIVOT TO THAT, IF YOU DON'T MIND.
IF THERE IS A CALL THAT THE PARAMEDICS RESPOND TO AND IT'S AN OVERDOSE, WHETHER IT'S OPIOIDS OR WHATEVER THE DRUG IS, IS THERE A NOTIFICATION TO PD TO INVESTIGATE THAT, NOT NECESSARILY TO PROSECUTE THE OVERDOSE PERSON, BUT TO LOOK AT WHERE DID THEY GET THE DRUGS, WHAT LED TO THIS CHAIN OF EVENTS?
>> IF THERE'S ANYTHING SUSPICIOUS THAT WE SEE OUTSIDE OF WHAT WE'RE GETTING ON SCENE, IF WE SENSE ANYTHING, BECAUSE WE ALSO KNOW, I THINK IT WAS JUST RECENTLY, THAT THEY COULD BE CHARGED WITH MURDER, THE LAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION MAYBE.
BUT WHEN THAT CAME OUT, WE STARTED TALKING TO OUR PEOPLE ABOUT NOW BECAUSE WE TRY TO BE VERY CAREFUL WITH OUR PD ON ANY CALL THAT WE'RE AT, IF IT'S A DESIGNATED OR COULD BE DESIGNATED AS A CRIME SCENE.
WE TRY TO BE VERY CAREFUL AND NOT DISTURB ANY EVIDENCE, AND WE WILL CALL PD IF WE SUSPECT ANYTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY IN TERMS OF HOWEVER, WE DON'T GO INTO IF THEY JUST GOT IT, WE DON'T TALK ABOUT WHERE THEY GOT IT.
WE USUALLY, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S SOMEONE THAT'S IN HIGH SCHOOL OR YOUNGER, WE'RE TALKING TO THE PARENTS.
HEY, DID YOU KNOW THEY MIGHT KNOW OR NOT KNOW.
THEN WE LEAVE THAT TO THEM TO CONTACT.
BUT ONLY IF IT'S REALLY SUSPICIOUS, DO WE GET WITH PD AND SAY, HEY, THIS OVERDOSE HAPPENED.
THIS WAS THE DRUG THAT WE THINK.
IF WE KNOW, WE KNOW, BUT A LOT OF TIMES WE JUST DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THEY MAY BE TELLING US THE TRUTH OR NOT.
THEY OVERDOSED ON TYLENOL, IT COULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING ELSE, OR THAT TYLENOL COULD HAVE BEEN LACED.
YOU JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE RUNNING INTO, BUT ANSWER THAT QUESTION IS WHEN WE THINK THAT PD NEEDS TO BE EVOLVED BECAUSE WE WANT IT OFF THE STREET JUST LIKE EVERYONE DOES, WE'LL CONTACT THEM AND TRY TO WORK WITH.
>> FOR THE STUDENTS, THE KIDS THAT ARE STILL IN MIDDLE SCHOOL OR HIGH SCHOOL.
>> HAS THERE BEEN A SITUATION WHERE YOU NOTICE MORE OF A CONCENTRATION OF OVERDOSE CALLS FROM A PARTICULAR CAMPUS? IF SO, IS THERE A MECHANISM TO REACH OUT TO THE SRO OR TO THE PD TO INFORM THEM, HEY, WE'RE OBSERVING THIS IN THE COMMUNITY.
>> I THOUGHT WE WOULD SEE THAT IN THE DATA THAT IT WOULD POINT TO A SPECIFIC SCHOOL.
WE'RE NOT SEEING THAT IN TERMS OF THE DISTRIBUTION OF WHERE THESE CALLS WERE BECAUSE I DID HAVE THEM TO ADAMS POINT DO A HEAT MAP OF THESE CALLS.
IT'S NOT PINPOINT TO A SPECIFIC SCHOOL, ESPECIALLY THEY MIGHT GO TO THAT SCHOOL, THEY COULD HAVE GOT IT THERE, BUT THEN IT HAPPENED AT HOME.
IT'S HARD TO CORRELATE SOME OF THAT.
I THINK THE ONE I CAN REMEMBER IS LIKE FOUR INSTANCES AT MARCUS OVER THAT FOUR-YEAR PERIOD.
THAT'S NOT AN INDICATION THAT IT'S RAMPANT.
I DO KNOW IN THE PREVIOUS TOWN I WORKED FOR, THEY CALLED ONE OF THE HIGH SCHOOLS THE PHARMACY BECAUSE YOU COULD GET ANYTHING YOU WANTED.
I HAVE NOT SEEN THAT HERE, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS I ASKED MY GUYS ALREADY RUN TO THE HIGH SCHOOL, MIDDLE SCHOOLS A LOT FOR THIS TYPE AND WE'RE NOT.
CHIEF MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT ANSWER WITH THE SROS IN SCHOOL, BUT WE'RE NOT SEEING THAT FROM A REACTIONARY STANDPOINT. THANKS.
>> MOST OF THE STUFF WE DEAL WITH, WE'RE DEALING WITH KIDS DOING IT OFF CAMPUS OR AT HOME, AND THEN WE TRACK DOWN THE DEALERS THAT ARE SELLING TO THEM.
THE LATEST ONE I THOUGHT THAT WE HEARD THAT WAS SELLING TO HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS, WE DROVE DOWN TO DALLAS AND FOUND THE APARTMENT COMPLEX WHERE THEY WERE SELLING, AND WE GOT IN LINE AND BOUGHT DRUGS SO THAT WE COULD START WORKING THAT AND TAKE THAT DOWN.
ALTHOUGH A LOT OF THE DRUG USE IS NOT DETECTED IN THE SCHOOL, IT IS THAT AGE OF KID THAT'S ABUSING IT.
YOU HEAR A LOT LIKE THIS IS A SO AND SO HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT, AND YOU THINK, OH MY GOD, THEY'RE DOING THIS AT SCHOOL.
NOT NECESSARILY, THEY'RE JUST ALSO A STUDENT OR A PAST STUDENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
[00:30:04]
>> THAT'S WHY I WONDER IF GETTING THESE STUDENTS INVOLVED IN A SUPPORT GROUP FOR KIDS WHERE THESE KIDS CAN HAVE AN OUTLET BECAUSE THEY DO GO HOME AND THEY DO DO THESE DRUGS, AND WOULD IT HELP TO HAVE THIS SUPPORTIVE NETWORK FOR THEM? BECAUSE SOMETIMES THEY CAN'T GO TO THE ADULTS.
>> YEAH I THINK JAMES IS GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE SCHOOL.
YOU CAN SEE IF THERE'S ANY ROOM FOR ANY NEW IDEAS. YOU READY?
>> THANK YOU, CHIEF, AND KAYLOR, IF YOU DON'T MIND HEADING UP AND STARING FOR ME.
OBVIOUSLY, WHEN THIS WAS BROUGHT FORWARD, IT WAS IN THE CONTEXT OF A COUPLE OF FAMILIES THAT LOST A KID THAT WAS IN THAT HIGH-SCHOOL RANGE.
NATURALLY, THERE HAS TO BE A CONNECTION AND A RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE ABOUT FLOWER MOUND IS THAT WE HAVE FIVE SCHOOL DISTRICTS WITHIN OUR CORPORATE LIMITS.
BUT MAJORITY OF OUR KIDS ARE IN LEWISVILLE ISD AND THEN THE BALANCES IN ARGYLE ISD, AND SO I REACHED OUT TO DR. RAPP AND DR. CARPER RESPECTFULLY, SHARED SOME OF WHAT WAS SHARED WITH US AND THE DESIRE WHAT OUR COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO GET OUT OF A CONVERSATION, AND I'M VERY APPRECIATIVE OF BOTH BECAUSE THEY VEILED US WITH A LOT OF INFORMATION AND CONTEXT THAT I'LL GET TO IN A MINUTE.
I'M GOING TO START OFF WITH LEWISVILLE ISD, AND WHAT YOU SEE BEFORE YOU ARE JUST THE THREE-PRONGED APPROACH THAT THEY ARE TAKING IN RESPONSE TO NOT JUST FENTANYL BUT JUST SUBSTANCE ABUSE OVERALL, AND YOU SEE ON THE LEFT THAT COMMUNITY BUCKET.
SPECIFICALLY, YOU CAN SEE THE FENTANYL AWARENESS PANELS THAT ARE SOON TO BE TAKING PLACE, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, I'LL POINT TO THAT FOURTH SUB-BULLET FROM THE TOP BULLET.
AS CHIEF COULON HAS REFERENCED THAT AS WE SPEAK RIGHT NOW, THERE IS A PANEL TAKING PLACE AT MARCUS HIGH SCHOOL RIGHT NOW.
YOU CAN GET A SENSE OF WHO ALL IS ON THAT PANEL OF WHO'S ENGAGED IN THAT PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE, SO YOU SEE THAT COMMUNITY COMPONENT ON IT, AND TO MAYOR, ON SOME LEVEL, THIS MAY SPEAK TO YOUR QUESTION IS ABOUT WHAT IS ON THE STUDENT LEVEL, AND I'LL START OFF WITH THE RED RIBBON CAMPAIGN WHICH TAKES PLACE EVERY OCTOBER.
I HAVE TWO KIDS NOW LEFT IN LEWISVILLE ISD AND I KNOW OCTOBER IS RED RIBBON AWARENESS MONTH BECAUSE MY YOUNGER KID ESPECIALLY WILL COME IN AND SHARE THAT WITH ME AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR SOME TIME.
YOU CAN SEE IN THE MIDDLE BULLET, THE DEAD ON ARRIVAL LESSON THAT GOES TO YOUR MIDDLE SCHOOL KIDS AND THAT ARE GOING TO TAKE PLACE NEXT YEAR.
THE LAST BULLET MAY OR MAY SPEAK TO SOME LEVEL WHAT YOU'RE REFERENCING IS THAT YOU SEE THE HOPE INTERVENTION PROGRAM FOR STUDENTS AND PARENTS SPECIFIC TO SUBSTANCE USE, AND WE CAN CERTAINLY GO AND LOOK IF THERE'S ANY SPECIFIC PEER-TO-PEER COMPONENTS, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT AS FAR AS OUTLETS FOR KIDS THAT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ENGAGE AN ADULT OR THEIR PARENTS ON THEIR CONCERNS AND SOME OF THE THINGS THEY'RE STRUGGLING WITH.
WE CAN CERTAINLY TAKE A DEEPER LOOK AT THAT.
LAST YOU SEE AS THE PARENTS, THE RESOURCES THAT ARE OUT THERE, AND AS LISD PARENT, I GET A BUNCH OF EMAILS, AND IT'S VERY EASY SOMETIMES TO JUST IGNORE THEM OR DELETE THEM, BUT I WOULD ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT BECAUSE A LOT OF THIS PERTINENT INFORMATION IS IN THOSE EMAILS THAT COME TO YOU THROUGH THE SCHOOL SYSTEM TO BE ABLE TO CHECK ON WHAT'S GOING ON.
IN AN INTEREST OF TIME, WE'RE NOT GOING TO PLAY THE VIDEO, BUT HOWEVER, THAT THIRD BULLET UNDER THE PARENTS IT'S A GOOD RESOURCE.
I BELIEVE IT'S A LEWISVILLE PD OFFICERS ALONG WITH STAFF WITH LISD JUST TALKING ABOUT SPECIFICALLY FENTANYL AND SOME OF THE EFFECTS AND THE THINGS THAT FOLKS NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT.
IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT WE DO HAVE SOME GUESTS FROM LISD HERE.
WE HAVE MONYA CROW IN THE BACK ROW THERE, AS WELL AS JILL ADAMS FROM LISD.
THEY DON'T HAVE A PRESENTATION OR ANYTHING, BUT THEY'RE HERE TO OBSERVE AND TAKE BACK THE FEEDBACK, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'LL GIVE US DIRECTION, AND CERTAINLY, I THINK THEY'RE PREPARED IF YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS OF THEM AND LISD.
I'M SURE THEY'RE MORE THAN WILLING TO COME FORWARD AND COME TO THE MICROPHONE.
NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. AS FAR AS ARGYLE ISD, THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME OVERLAP THERE.
A LOT OF SCHOOL DISTRICTS RECOGNIZE OCTOBER AS RED RIBBON WEEK AND AWARENESS COMPONENTS THERE.
YOU CAN SEE THAT ARGYLE ISD WORKS CLOSELY WITH THE DEA.
JUST FOR A REFERENCE POINT THAT ARGYLE ISD IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FROM LISD.
WE HAVE AN SRO PROGRAM THAT WE HAVE OUR FLOWER MOUND PD OFFICERS EMBEDDED IN THE SCHOOLS.
ARGYLE ISD ACTUALLY HAS THEIR OWN POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND SO THEY DON'T HAVE SROS IN A TRADITIONAL SENSE LIKE LEWISVILLE ISD DOES, BUT WE HAVE A GOOD WORKING RELATIONSHIP.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, THE CHIEF OF POLICE FOR ARGYLE ISD IS A FORMER FMPD OFFICER, SO THERE'S A CONNECTION THERE, AND SO WE HAVE THE CONDUIT TO WORK CLOSELY WITH THEM.
YOU CAN SEE THERE, AS WE GO DOWN HERE, IT'S JUST A LOT OF THE SAME PROGRAMS ARE THERE AVAILABLE FOR ARGYLE ISD STUDENTS AND FAMILIES THAT ARE AVAILABLE,
[00:35:03]
RESOURCES THAT THEY CAN CONNECT WITH THEIR COUNSELORS AND THE LIKE, AND PUTTING THAT INFORMATION OUT THERE FOR PARENTS.AGAIN, WE WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH OUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN THIS REGARD, AND AGAIN, IT WOULD BE REMISS IF WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS WITHOUT REFERENCING SOME OF THE WORK THAT OUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE DOING.
WELL, WITH THAT, KAYLOR WILL HIT THE NEXT SLIDE AND I'LL WRAP THIS UP.
>> LIKE WE SAID, THE EDUCATIONAL PART IS THE MOST IMPORTANT.
WITH OUR COMMUNITY RESPONSE, WE HAVE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT RESOURCES THAT THE COMMUNITY CAN USE.
WE HAVE THE PARTNERSHIP WITH WINNING THE FIGHT!.
THEY'VE BEEN HERE WITH US SINCE 2010.
IT'S BASICALLY LIKE AN OPEN DIALOGUE WITH THE ORGANIZATION TO HAVE WITH THE FAMILIES THAT ARE DEALING WITH THESE ISSUES WITH OPIOID ADDICTION, AND THEY'RE ALSO IN CLOSE CONTACT WITH THE FLOWER MOUND POLICE DEPARTMENT WITH THEIR NARCOTICS UNIT.
AGAIN, IT'S JUST BEING A RESOURCE FOR THEM TO HAVE WHEN THEY'RE EXPERIENCING THESE LOSSES WITH THE OVERDOSES WITH OPIOID.
NEXT, LIKE WE SPOKE ABOUT LISD WITH THEIR FENTANYL AWARENESS PANEL, THAT'S THERE FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS TO UTILIZE.
THEN IDENTIFY AND NOTIFY IS A PROGRAM, AGAIN, TO BRING THAT AWARENESS AND TO BE THAT RESOURCE FOR THE COMMUNITY.
THEN LASTLY, I KNOW WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HAVING A MAP.
THEY HAVE THE OD MAP FOR THE FLOWER MOUND POLICE DEPARTMENT TO PUT IN PLACE FOR THE COMMUNITY TO USE TO SEE WHERE THESE OVERDOSES ARE AND WHERE THE NARCAN USAGE IS AS WELL WITHIN FLOWER MOUND.
THOSE ARE JUST A COUPLE OF COMMUNITY RESOURCES THAT THEY CAN USE.
>> ON THIS LAST SLIDE, THIS IS THE LAST SLIDE THAT WE HAVE AND WE'LL OPEN UP FOR ANY QUESTIONS, DIALOGUE, DIRECTION THAT YOU HAVE FOR US AS A STAFF.
I KNOW ANOTHER THING THAT WAS BROUGHT UP WAS, SPECIFICALLY, THERE'S BEEN OBVIOUSLY SEVERAL HUGE SETTLEMENTS WITH VARIOUS PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES BECAUSE OF THE OPIOID CRISIS WHERE THOSE FUNDS COME BACK TO MUNICIPALITIES TO UTILIZE.
THERE WERE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT RESOURCES HAS THE TOWN RECEIVED IN REGARDS TO THE SETTLEMENT AND YOU CAN SEE UP THERE, SO FAR THE TOWN OF FLOWER MOUND RECEIVED TWO TRANCHES OF THESE MONIES IN MARCH OF LAST YEAR AS WELL AS APRIL OF THIS YEAR, TOTALING OVER $80,000.
IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THESE FUNDS HAVE TO BE UTILIZED, ESSENTIALLY, FOR THE REMEDIATION IN RESPONSE TO THE OPIOID CRISIS.
THERE'S SOME DISCRETION THERE.
WE HAVEN'T USED THOSE TO THAT POINT.
I WILL SHARE THAT THIS IS PROBABLY FROM A DIRECTION AND AN ACTION STANDPOINT, AS YOU AS A COUNCIL, THIS IS SOME RESOURCES THAT YOU CAN START DIRECTING IN ANY WAY THAT YOU SEE FIT.
JUST TO TRY TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF HOW WE CAN UTILIZE THESE FUNDS, WE'RE NOT LACKING NARCAN AND BE ABLE TO RESPOND.
WE HAVE PLENTY OF IT, WE HAVE ACCESS TO IT.
THAT'S ONE THING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.
I THINK, JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME GENERAL IDEAS, THESE ARE MONIES THAT YOU CAN DIRECT TO NON-PROFITS AND OTHER ENTITIES THAT GO TOWARDS THAT CHARGE.
I'M SURE THAT IF WE WORK WITH CHIEF COULON, THERE ARE SOME OPERATIONAL PIECES FROM THE PD PERSPECTIVE THAT WE CAN LEVERAGE THOSE FUNDS.
SOME OF THE OTHER CITIES THAT I'VE WORKED IN HAVE USED IT IN THAT MANNER WHERE YOU DIRECT THOSE TO DIRECT RESPONSE TO TRYING TO REMEDIATE AND GET OPIOIDS OFF THE STREET.
THERE'S SOME FLEXIBILITY HERE, AND I THINK THIS REPRESENTS THE BEST OPPORTUNITY YOU AS A COUNCIL TO SAY, HEY, STAFF, WE WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO EXPLORE GOING IN THIS DIRECTION.
WE WANTED TO END ON THIS ONE TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF HOW MUCH MONEY IS OUT THERE.
JOHN, I HAVEN'T TALKED TO YOU BEFOREHAND.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU AND MARY ARE AWARE.
THERE IS NOT ANY LEVEL OF FREQUENCY OR REGULARITY THAT WE GET THESE FUNDS.
IS IT A SITUATION WHERE WE JUST GET THEM, WHEN WE GET THEM? IT'S NOT LIKE THIS IS SCHEDULED THAT EVERY GIVEN TIME WE CAN EXPECT TO SEE X AMOUNT.
WE JUST GET IT WHEN WE GET IT.
THAT'S ONE THING THAT YOU CAN KEEP IN MIND AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
WE COULD CONCEIVABLY RECEIVE MORE THERE IN THE FUTURE, BUT ALMOST 81,000 IS WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE RIGHT NOW IN OUR TOWN COFFERS FOR OPIOID RESPONSE.
WITH THAT, I'LL CLOSE IT UP FOR ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE FOR ANY OF THE STAFF TO PRESENT IT.
I WILL SAY ARGYLE ISD INTENDED TO HAVE SOMEBODY THERE.
THERE WAS A CONFLICT THE LAST SECOND, BUT AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO SAY AGAIN THAT VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THE RELATIONSHIP I HAVE WITH BOTH OF OUR SUPERINTENDENTS.
THEY WERE QUICKLY ON THE BALL AND IN ENGAGING US, AND WE JUST APPRECIATE THAT RELATIONSHIP TOO.
WITH THAT, I'LL OPEN THE FLOOR FOR ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE, STAFF.
>> I'VE GOT A COUPLE. FIRST WAS WITH THIS $80,000.
IS IT JUST SITTING IN ACCOUNT JUST WAITING FOR DIRECTION OR DID STAFF HAVE A PLAN ON WHAT TO DO WITH THAT? THEN THE SECOND THING DOVETAILS INTO THAT WAS,
[00:40:03]
AFTER WE'VE LOOKED INTO THIS AND SPENT A COUPLE OF WEEKS WITH THE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS, EXTERNAL GROUPS AS WELL, DOES STAFF HAVE ANY AREAS THAT THEY'VE IDENTIFIED AS AN OPPORTUNITY WHERE WE CAN BECOME MORE INVOLVED OR SPEND SOME OF THAT MONEY TO HELP MITIGATE THIS CRISIS?>> I'LL SPEAK, AND BOTH CHIEFS, IF YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS OR ANYTHING, PLEASE DON'T HESITATE TO JUMP UP.
I THINK RIGHT NOW THAT MONEY IS SITTING IN A DEDICATED ACCOUNT.
OBVIOUSLY, WE CAN'T USE IT FOR ANY OTHER MEANS OTHER THAN THAN THE RESPONSE TO THAT, AND I THINK THAT'S WHY IT'S BEEN SITTING, BECAUSE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S DIRECTED.
I THINK, MORE SO THAN ANYTHING ELSE, THERE HASN'T BEEN A GLARING NEED THAT THAT MONEY CAN BE DIRECTED TOWARDS.
I THINK THIS CREATES A TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY IF SOMETHING PRESENTS ITSELF.
OFTENTIMES, I'M GOING TO DEFER TO THE CHIEF AND JUST SAY, HEY, IF THERE'S A TRUE OPERATIONAL NEED TO WHERE WE CAN LEVERAGE THESE DOLLARS TO DO SOMETHING THAT MAKES A DIRECT IMPACT, WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT, OR IT CAN BE A CONDO AND WE CAN PASS THESE FUNDS TO OTHER ENTITIES SUCH AS NON-PROFITS TO UTILIZE, AND CHIEF, I'LL DEFER TO YOU IF YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING TO THAT.
>> THE TOWN OF FLOWER MOUND PROVIDES TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WHAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT NEEDS.
YOU HAVE SOME MONEY HERE, AND SO IF YOU ASK ME WHAT WE NEED, WE NEED MORE EYES ON THE PROBLEM.
WE NEED MORE BOOTS ON THE GROUND, WE NEED MORE ORGANIZATIONS, WE NEED MORE PEOPLE WORKING TOWARDS IT.
IF YOU ASK FOR AN IDEA FOR $80,000, THAT DOESN'T PAY FOR A LOT OF POLICING, BUT THAT COULD PAY A NON-PROFIT A LOT FOR SOME WORK THAT ONE OF OUR GOOD COMMUNITY GROUPS CAN DO.
THERE IS A PRETTY GOOD SUGGESTION THAT WE FIND SOME MORE SKIN TO PUT IN THE GAME.
WE FIND SOME MORE BODIES TO HELP AND MAYBE THEY CAN ATTACK IT FROM A DIFFERENT DIRECTION THAN WHAT PD OR FIRE OR THE TOWN IS ALREADY DOING.
AS FAR AS SUGGESTIONS, I WOULD THINK THAT THAT MIGHT GET THE BIGGEST IMPACT.
IF I NEEDED MORE FOR THIS OPIOID RESPONSE, WE WOULD GET IT.
IT'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR A COMMUNITY GROUP.
THAT MIGHT BE A GREAT PLACE FOR YOU TO FIND SOMEBODY TO GIVE IT TO.
>> THESE FUNDS CAN BE USED FOR, IT SAYS TO BE USED FOR REMEDIATION IN RESPONSE TO OPIOID CRISIS, BUT THIS CAN ACTUALLY BE USED FOR PREVENTATIVE MEASURES AS WELL, RIGHT?
>> I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON [OVERLAPPING] HOW THIS MONEY CAN BE USED.
>> I THINK WHAT YOU DESCRIBED FALLS IN THAT CATEGORY.
>> BECAUSE IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE SOME INITIATIVE FOR OUR COMMUNITY TO WORK WITH EVERYBODY, OUR EMERGENCY SERVICES, BUT TO HAVE SOME GREAT INITIATIVE FOR THESE PREVENTATIVE ISSUES SO THAT IT DOESN'T BECOME A PROBLEM.
I WOULD CERTAINLY LIKE TO SEE SOME OF OUR KIDS GETTING INVOLVED AND SEE MORE SUPPORT GROUPS THAT KIDS WILL FEEL WELCOME TO.
OUR POLICE SERVICES, OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT, THEY'RE DOING GREAT.
I JUST KNOW THAT KIDS SUPPORTED BY OTHER KIDS, YOUTHS, CAN BE INVALUABLE, AND IF THEY HAVE SOME WELCOMING AREA, SOME WELCOMING PLACE THAT THEY CAN GO WHEN THEY'RE HAVING THESE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, I THINK, IT CAN BE GREAT FOR THESE KIDS.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS I'LL ADD TO THAT, MAYOR, AND I'M SORRY, CHIEF, IF YOU HAD SOMETHING TO ADD IS IS THAT, I THINK, REALLY THE KEY IN WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS IS THAT WE FEEL THAT THE BEST WAY WE'RE SERVED WITH THESE FUNDS TO PASS IT TO ANOTHER ENTITY THAT CAN ATTACK THIS AT A DIFFERENT ANGLE.
I THINK, IN A LOT OF CASES WE DO HAVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH NON-PROFIT THROUGH OUR COMMUNITY SUPPORT PROGRAMS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT AS WE GO DURING THE COURSE, AND IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE A PART OF OUR FORMAL BUDGET PROCESS NEXT SUMMER, IS TO TRY TO FIND THESE ORGANIZATIONS THAT CAN DO THE VERY THINGS THAT YOU'RE SEEKING, AND MAYBE WE CAN TAKE A MORE PROACTIVE LOOK TO IDENTIFY ORGANIZATIONS THAT CAN DO THAT AND SEE IF THEY CAN BE A CONDUIT FOR THESE FUNDS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I DO WANT TO TRY TO GET A GOOD SENSE ON IS THE WORST THING THAT I WANT TO DO IS GIVE 80,000 AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY MORE OF THOSE DOLLARS LEFT.
I WORK CLOSELY WITH FINANCE TO GET A SENSE OF HOW THAT'S WORKING IN, AND IN A LOT OF CASES, WORKING WITH THEIR GROUP TO SEE WHAT THEY TRULY NEED.
REALLY, I'LL JUST BE A LITTLE BIT MORE OVERT.
I THINK THAT WHAT WE CAN DO IS SERVE AS A PASS-THROUGH TO GET THESE FUNDS IN THE HANDS OF OTHER PEOPLE THAT CAN ATTACK THIS FROM A DIFFERENT ANGLE THAN WE CAN, BECAUSE WE'RE GOOD AT A LOT OF THINGS BUT THERE'S A REASON WHY NON-PROFITS ARE THERE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A BETTER SKILL SET TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE OTHER ASPECTS OF IT, AND SO FOR US IS JUST REALLY TRYING TO IDENTIFY THOSE.
OBVIOUSLY, WINNING THE FIGHT! IS THE ONE ORGANIZATION
[00:45:02]
I'M MOST FAMILIAR WITH IN MY TIME HERE AND THE WORK THAT THEY DO, BUT THERE MAY BE OTHER ONES THAT ARE OUT THERE, AND CERTAINLY WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IF THERE ARE OTHER NON-PROFITS THAT ARE THERE THAT FEEL LIKE THEY CAN STEP UP AND BE A PART OF THIS, WE'RE MORE WELCOME TO DO THAT.BUT AS ALWAYS, WE'LL GO THROUGH THE SAME LEVEL OF SCRUTINY AND ENGAGEMENT THAT WE DO WITH ANY COMMUNITY SUPPORT, BE IT IF THESE NOT IN THAT ROUGHLY 230 SOMEWHAT THOUSAND DOLLARS THAT WE GIVE OUT EVERY GIVEN YEAR.
I VERY MUCH WANT TO DO THIS AS AN INVITATION TO SEE WHO ELSE IS OUT THERE THAT CAN PARTNER WITH US AND CAN LEVERAGE THOSE FUNDS BETTER THAN WE CAN.
I THINK WE ALSO NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT SOME OF OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS ARE OUT OF SCHOOL ALREADY.
IF YOU GO BACK TO THE SLIDE THAT YOU HAD, THERE WERE MANY THAT WERE OLDER THAN WHAT I MIGHT HAVE IMAGINED.
THERE MIGHT BE SOME ORGANIZATIONS LIKE MAYBE CELEBRATE RECOVERY OR OTHER SUPPORT GROUPS WHERE PEOPLE CAN FIND THE HELP THEY NEED FROM THEIR PEERS.
EVEN IF SOME OF THOSE DOLLARS WERE USED TO BUY NARCAN TO GIVE TO SOME NON-PROFIT GROUPS, THAT MIGHT BE ANOTHER STEP.
BECAUSE REALLY WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO IS MENTAL HEALTH, SUPPORTING THAT, SO IT DOESN'T BECOME A PROBLEM THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO GO TO DRUGS.
>> I WAS THINKING THAT I HAD THE SAME THOUGHT AS THE MAYOR PRO TEM THAT I THINK THE ISDS HAVE SHOWN THAT THEY'RE HAVING A EDUCATION OPPORTUNITY RIGHT NOW.
BUT MOST OF THE VICTIMS SEEM TO BE OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH SOMEONE WHO'S JUST RECOVERED FROM AN OD? DO WE TAKE THEM ANYWHERE? DO WE HAVE A PLACE WHERE THEY GO TO GET ASSISTANCE?
>> FOR US, IF THEY GO TO THE HOSPITAL AND THEY HAVE SOCIAL WORK FROM THERE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR PROCESS IS, DEPUTY MAYOR PRO TEM, BUT I DO KNOW THAT THEY DO TRY TO REACH OUT PER MEDICAL DIRECTOR.
>> THAT SEEMS LIKE AN OPPORTUNITY.
THERE COULD BE SOMEBODY LIKE THE MAYOR PRO TEM MENTIONED THAT IS HELPING SOME OF THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE STRUGGLING TO GET BACK ON THEIR FEET.
GENERALLY WHEN WE STEER THESE DOLLARS WITH TRYING TO GET SOMEONE OUT IN THE SOCIAL SERVICE COMMUNITY WHO CAN HELP PEOPLE THAT WE REALLY CAN'T HELP, AND THAT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD USE.
I DO WANT TO JUST AT LEAST EXPLORE THE OPTION OF HAVING NARCAN AVAILABLE CO LOCATED WITH OUR AEDS.
THAT SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY LOW EFFORT, LOW COST ACTION WE CAN TAKE TO MAKE SURE THAT IF SOMETHING HAPPENS IN A PLACE WHERE WE CAN HELP SOMEONE THAT THEY CAN GET THAT HELP.
WE OUGHT TO LOOK INTO THAT AND MAYBE ENCOURAGE OTHER AED LOCATIONS TO DO THE SAME.
>> THAT'S A GOOD IDEA. THAT'S AN EASY, AS YOU SAID, WE COULD MAKE THAT HAPPEN TOMORROW.
I'LL ECHO WHAT CHIEF CON SAYS.
WE ARE AMPLY SUPPLIED NOW, NARCAN DOES COME OUT OF OUR EMS BUDGET.
WE DON'T GET GRANTS FOR THAT, BUT WE DO BUY THAT FROM PHARMACIES AT A LOWER RATE, BUT WE ARE WELL PROVIDED FOR IN TERMS OF GETTING EVERYTHING WE NEED.
THE ONLY ADDITION I WOULD HAVE IS TO ECHO WHAT OUR TOWN MANAGER HAD MENTIONED ABOUT NON-PROFITS, AND THEN OFFERING EMS TO TRAIN IN TERMS OF HOW TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE DOING IT THE RIGHT WAY.
IT'S PRETTY EASY, BUT ONE, NOTICING THE SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS. TWO, HOW TO DELIVER IT EFFECTIVELY.
THEN THREE, WHAT TO LOOK FOR IN TERMS OF RECOVERY, OF COURSE, MAKING SURE THEY CALLED 911 AND ALL THESE THINGS.
ALL THE GROUPS YOU'VE IDENTIFIED AND ANYWHERE WE CAN PLUG OURSELVES IN FOR THE TRAINING AND ASPECT OF THAT.
IN RECOGNITION, WE'LL BE HAPPY TO DO THAT.
OUR FIRE PREVENTION TEAM DOES THAT ON MANY TOPICS AND HAPPY TO DO IT ON THIS ONE.
>> I WAS CURIOUS. WHAT'S THE EXPIRATION ON THAT NARCAN?
>> IT'S USUALLY ABOUT TWO YEARS FROM WHAT I RECOLLECT.
WE CHECK OUR DRUGS EVERY WEEK, AND THEN WE DISPOSE THEM WHEN THEY GO OUT OF DATE.
UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S ONE THAT WE USE AS YOU SAW QUITE A BIT.
BUT JUST LIKE OUR AEDS TO DEPUTY MAYOR PRO TEM SHE ALSO POINT, WE DO HAVE MAINTENANCE WE DO ON THOSE.
WE CHECK THE BATTERIES EVERY MONTH AND IT WOULD BE NOT A FAR STRETCH TO JUST CHECK THE EXPIRATION DATES, MAKE SURE THOSE ARE GOOD.
WE PROBABLY NEED TO DEVELOP A LITTLE PAMPHLET OR SOMETHING ON QUICK ADMINISTRATION, AND I CAN WORK WITH THE TOWN MANAGEMENT STATE ON IT.
>> AS FAR AS THE EDUCATION PIECE FOR THE OLDER POPULATION OUTSIDE OF SCHOOL, AS WE MENTIONED.
I THINK IF WE CAN EDUCATE PEOPLE ABOUT THE DANGERS OF IT, BUT THEN ALSO EDUCATE HAS BEEN MENTIONED, HOW TO HANDLE IT IF YOU SEE SOMEONE AND HOW TO IDENTIFY HOW TO TREAT IT.
I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE RIGHT VENUE FOR IT, BUT WE TALKED A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO AT YOUR OPEN HOUSE,
[00:50:03]
WOULD THAT BE A VENUE TO HAVE A LITTLE DEMONSTRATION OR HAVE A TED T TALK OR SOMETHING? MAYBE NOT OPEN TO EVERYBODY WHO MIGHT WANT TO BRING THE MOOD DOWN TOO MUCH, BUT I DON'T KNOW, THAT MIGHT BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A STATION OR SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT.>> I THINK TOO WORKING WITH OUR COMMUNICATION STAFF, A NICE INFORMATION VIDEO MIGHT BE, I DON'T WANT TO PUT WORK ON THEIR PLATE, BUT THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT COULD HELP GET THE WORD OUT AND WHETHER IT'S ON THE WEBSITE OR WE PUSH IT OUT ON THE SOCIALS DURING RED ROBIN WEEK, EACH YEAR.
>> I CAN IMAGINE A SCENARIO, IF YOU RECALL THAT WE PUT TOGETHER A VIDEO FOR AEDS AND WHAT TO DO IN THOSE SITUATIONS.
WE COULD VERY EASILY DO SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR FOR IF YOU NEED TO ADMINISTER NARCAN TO SOMEBODY OR SOMEBODY'S HAVING AN EPISODE FROM THAT.
THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING I GOT TO CHECK WITH MELISSA AND SEE WHAT PUTS IN THEIR QUEUE, BUT THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING WE CAN PUT INTO WORKS, THAT SHOULDN'T BE DIFFICULT.
WE CAN FOLLOW THAT TEMPLATE OF WHAT WE DID WITH OUR AEDS.
>> ONE LAST IDEA, DOES OUR WEBSITE HAVE A CROSS REFERENCE TO SOME OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS, LIKE OUR SCHOOL LIAISON BOARD, AND THEN COULD WE SOMEHOW HAVE THAT SEARCHABLE ON OUR WEBSITE, TOWN RESOURCES OR RECOMMENDATIONS?
>> I'M AMAZED EVERY DAY BY ALL WE HAVE ON OUR WEBSITE AND SOMETIMES I'VE POINTED TO IT.
I'M NOT GOING TO SAY THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT, BUT CERTAINLY IF WE DON'T HAVE IT IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN'T BE TOO DIFFICULT TO ASK.
WE'LL WORK WITH MELISSA AND GET THAT UP.
>> ANYTHING ELSE? WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND MOVE ON TO THE NEXT WORK SESSION ITEM.
THAT'S THE TOWN LIGHTING STANDARDS.
ALEXI MURPHY IS GOING TO PRESENT? [BACKGROUND] IN APRIL 2024, TOWN COUNCIL APPROVED THE LAND USE UPDATE, WHICH UPDATED THE OUTDOOR LIGHTING STANDARDS FOR CONSERVATION DEVELOPMENTS.
TOWN COUNCIL REQUESTED A DISCUSSION ON THE OUTDOOR LIGHTING OUTSIDE OF CONSERVATION AREAS.
ALEXI, YOU'RE GOING TO PRESENT ON THIS?
>> THIS IS JUST SUMMARIZING WHAT THE MAYOR WAS JUST SAYING.
THE BRIGHTNESS OF STREET LIGHTS WAS INITIALLY BROUGHT UP BY RESIDENTS DURING THE DISCUSSION WHEN WE WERE FIRST UPDATING THE CROSS TIMBERS CONSERVATION DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT STANDARDS.
AS A RESULT OF THIS DISCUSSION, SPECIFIC STREET LIGHT STANDARDS WERE ADOPTED FOR CONSERVATION DEVELOPMENTS IN THE CTCDD AS PART OF THAT 2022 UPDATE.
THESE STANDARDS ACTUALLY THEN WERE MODIFIED IN THIS PAST APRIL TO ALLOW FOR AN EXCEPTION PROCESS IF THE ASSOCIATED UTILITY COMPANY PROVIDED DOCUMENTATION THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE A PRODUCT THAT CURRENTLY MET THE UPDATED STANDARDS.
THIS WAS PRIMARILY FOR THE DIMMERS OR TIMERS BECAUSE WE DISCOVERED THAT THE UTILITY PROVIDERS JUST COULDN'T MEET THAT STANDARD.
BUT WE DIDN'T WANT TO JUST ELIMINATE IT BECAUSE THERE'S ALSO ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY THAT NEW TECHNOLOGY AND THAT COULD BECOME POSSIBLE IN THE FUTURE.
BUT DURING THAT DISCUSSION WITH TOWN COUNCIL, THE QUESTION WAS RAISED OF WHETHER SIMILAR DARK SKY TYPE LIGHTING STANDARDS COULD BE ADOPTED TOWN WIDE.
AS PART OF THIS CONVERSATION, I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH A LOT OF WHAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY IN THE TOWN'S ORDINANCES JUST SO THAT COUNCIL IS AWARE OF THAT BECAUSE WE DO HAVE A NUMBER OF LIGHTING STANDARDS THAT I THINK HELP MOVE US IN A POSITIVE DIRECTION.
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF THOSE AS WE TALK ABOUT ANY POSSIBLE CHANGES.
THESE ARE JUST THE LANGUAGE FOR THE CONSERVATION DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS.
THESE DO NOT APPLY TO RESIDENTIAL LOTS.
THE INTENTION IS PRIMARILY FOR HOA STRUCTURES OR AMENITY AREAS OR THAT THING, PARTICULARLY HAD COME UP DURING THE CTCDD, SOME OF THE RESIDENTS FELT LIKE ONE OF THE MODEL HOMES THAT WAS BEING OPERATED BY THE HOA WAS EXTREMELY WELL LIT UP.
THAT'S WHERE SOME OF THE DISCUSSION CAME FROM.
AGAIN, WE TALKED ABOUT THE TIMERS OR DIMMERS, HAS TO BE SHIELDED, THE 3,000 KELVINS FOR THE COLOR AND SAYING THAT THE OUTDOOR LIGHTING FIXTURE SHOULD BE AIMED SO THAT LIGHT DOESN'T SPILL ONTO ADJACENT PROPERTIES, REDUCED GLARE.
NO SAG-LENS, DROP-LENS, SEARCHLIGHTS, BEACONS, LASER SOURCES, MERCURY VAPOR FIXTURES.
OUTDOOR UPLIGHTING IS PROHIBITED UNLESS IT WOULD BE SHIELDED BY A ROOF OVERHANG.
[00:55:05]
THEN TALKING ABOUT THAT EXEMPTION PROCESS, IT ALLOWED FOR THE DIMMERS AND TIMERS AND ALSO IS FOR NUMBER 4, FOR THE 3,000 KELVINS, BECAUSE AT THE TIME, ALSO WHEN WE'D SPOKEN TO ONCOR, THEY FELT LIKE THEY COULD ONLY DO 4,000 KELVINS.THEY DIDN'T THINK THEY COULD REACH THE 3,000 NUMBER YET.
IF IT WAS AN AREA THAT WAS SERVED ONLY BY ONCOR, THEY WOULD POTENTIALLY ALSO NEED THAT EXCEPTION.
JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU ALL SOME REFERENCE POINTS, NOT JUST SAY WORDS, BUT SHOW YOU SOME IMAGES OF WHAT THAT MEANS ALSO.
THIS IS SHOWING THOSE KELVIN NUMBERS.
THIS IS THE 3,000 KELVINS, MORE ON THE WARM SCALE, AND THEN YOU GET MORE INTO NEUTRAL WITH 3,500, 4,000.
THEN I THINK YOU GET A LITTLE MORE COOL ONCE YOU GET TO 5,000 AND THEN COLD ALL THE WAY UP TO THE EIGHT OR 10,000 KELVINS.
THIS IS WHAT THE SAG OR DROP-LENS MEANS.
IT'S WHEN IT ACTUALLY PROTRUDES DOWN UNDERNEATH THE SURROUNDING OR SHIELDING MATERIAL, SO THAT ALLOWS THE LIGHT TO SPREAD MORE.
WHEREAS IF IT'S COMPLETELY SURROUNDED BY THE FIXTURE, THEN IT JUST IS DIRECTED MORE STRAIGHT DOWN.
AGAIN, THIS IS THE FLAT-LENS IS THE OTHER PICTURE.
THIS IS WHAT WE WOULD ACTUALLY WANT TO SEE RATHER THAN THE DROP-LENS.
WE DO HAVE A NUMBER OF RESTRICTIONS IN OUR CODE THAT APPLY TO ALL OUTDOOR LIGHTING FOR NON RESIDENTIAL USES.
FOR PROHIBITED LIGHTING, THE FOLLOWING ARE PROHIBITED.
YOU CAN'T HAVE UNSHIELDED LIGHT SOURCE, INCLUDING BARE BULBS, IF IT'S ABOVE 15 WATTS OR 225 LUMENS, EXCEPT FOR TEMPORARY SEASONAL LIGHTING.
YOU CAN'T HAVE SEARCHLIGHT, STROBES, PULSATING LIGHTS, YOU CAN'T USE LOW PRESSURE SODIUM BULBS.
CAN'T DO PARTIAL CUTOFF, THAT WOULD BE AGAIN, FULL CUTOFF IS WHERE IT'S COMPLETELY SURROUNDED BY THE FIXTURE.
YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY PARTIAL CUTOFF WOULD BE IF THE FIXTURE DOESN'T COVER ALL OF IT.
CAN'T HAVE THE DROP-LENS, TALKED ABOUT THAT.
CAN'T HAVE LUMINARIES IN THE COMPATIBILITY BUFFER BETWEEN DISSIMILAR USES, CAN'T PRODUCE A DISABILITY GLARE, ANY LIGHT OR COMBINATION OF LIGHTING THAT CREATES A NUISANCE.
I'LL GO TO THAT SLIDE NEXT TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT WE CONSIDER AS A NUISANCE.
THEN ANY LIGHTING INSTALLED TO ELIMINATE AND IMPROVE SURFACE OR PRIVATE OUTDOOR RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES THAT EXCEEDS SOME SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS WE HAVE FOR PRIVATE RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES AS WELL.
WE CAN GO OVER THAT MORE LATER.
LOOKING AT OUR DEFINITIONS, THIS IS OUR DEFINITION FOR WHAT AN OUTDOOR LIGHTING NUISANCE IS.
IT LIGHT THAT IF MEASURED AT THE PROPERTY LINE, ADJACENT TO A RESIDENTIALLY ZONED PROPERTY OR ADJACENT TO A PROPERTY USED FOR RESIDENTIAL PURPOSES IS IN EXCESS OF FOUR TENTHS OF ONE FOOT CANDLE.
THEN YOU CAN SEE DOWN HERE BEFORE A FOOT CANDLE MEANS THE AMOUNT OF ILLUMINATION PROVIDED BY ONE LUMEN UNIFORMLY DISTRIBUTED ON ONE SQUARE FOOT OF SURFACE.
NUISANCE WOULD ALSO BE, IF MEASURED AT THE PROPERTY LINE ADJACENT TO AN ARTERIAL STREET IS IN EXCESS OF 1.5 FOOT CANDLES, OR IF IT'S MEASURED AT THE PROPERTY LINE ADJACENT TO A COLLECTOR OR LOCAL RESIDENTIAL STREET IS IN EXCESS OF THE FOUR TENTHS OF ONE.
AGAIN, FOR COLLECTOR RESIDENTIAL IT GOES BACK TO THAT FOUR TENTHS OF ONE FOOT CANDLE, THE SAME STANDARD WE HAVE FOR ADJACENT TO RESIDENTIALLY ZONED PROPERTY.
HOW DO WE CHECK THAT? WE GET A PHOTOMETRIC STUDY FROM APPLICANTS WHENEVER THEY COME IN WITH THEIR BUILDING PERMIT, SO WE DON'T DO THIS AT THE SITE PLAN STAGE.
INSTEAD, BUILDING INSPECTIONS REVIEWS IT WITH THEIR BUILDING PERMIT.
YOU CAN SEE ALL THESE LITTLE NUMBERS.
THEY HAVE TO FOR EVERY SQUARE FOOT, FIGURE OUT WHAT THE LUMENS WOULD BE RIGHT THERE BASED ON ALL THE DIFFERENT LIGHT SOURCES THAT ARE ON THE PROPERTY.
THEN THEY HAVE TO MAKE SURE THEY COMPLY AT ANY PROPERTY LINE ADJACENT TO A ROAD.
NOW HERE THESE NUMBERS ARE HIGHER BECAUSE THIS IS ADJACENT TO ANOTHER COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT BEHIND IT.
THIS IS REALLY JUST EXTENSION OF THE PARKING LOT RIGHT THERE.
BUT ALL ALONG THE EXTERIOR, IT'S MEETING THOSE STANDARDS.
I JUST MENTIONED THIS, THERE IS SOME ADDITIONAL STANDARDS THAT THE STATE HAS PASSED THAT WE CAN'T REQUIRE PEOPLE TO VIOLATE.
THAT JUST CAN HAVE TO DO WITH IF THEY HAVE AN OUTDOOR ATM ENSURING THAT IT'S REALLY WELL LIT SO THAT YOU DIDN'T WANT PEOPLE OUT IN THE PARKING LOT AND COULD BE SOMEBODY TRYING TO ROB THEM WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO THE ATM, THAT THING.
THERE ARE A FEW SPECIFIC STANDARDS FROM THE STATE THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH IF SOMEBODY WAS VIOLATING OUR ORDINANCE, BUT DOING IT IN ORDER TO MEET THE STATE REQUIREMENT.
>> ALEXI, THIS SLIDE, THIS IS THEORETICAL.
[01:00:02]
THIS IS NOT ACTUALLY MEASURED, IS THAT RIGHT? IS THAT BASED ON WHERE THEY'RE PUTTING THE LIGHTS AND WHERE IT SHOULDN'T SHINE BRIGHTNESS IN CERTAIN AREAS.>> YES. I WOULDN'T JUST SAY IT'S THEORETICAL BECAUSE IT'S BASED ON THE LIGHTS THAT ARE BEING PUT IN PLACE AND WHAT THEY'RE EXPECTED CAPACITY IS FROM EACH LIGHT TYPE.
>> IT'S CALCULATED, NOT MEASURED.
>> YEAH. IT'S A CALCULATED THING.
IT'S NOT JUST THIS IS WHAT WE THINK IT'LL BE.
I WOULD SAY IT SHOULD BE ACCURATE.
IF THEY'RE USING THE FIXTURES AND BULBS THAT ARE PROVIDED AS PART OF THIS PHOTOMETRIC STUDY, THEN THESE NUMBERS WOULD BE CORRECT.
>> IS THERE ANY TEST BEFORE THEY GET THEIR PERMITS OR THEIR COS OR SOMETHING?
>> I DON'T KNOW THAT WE GO OUT AND DOUBLE CHECK IT, BUT IF SOMEBODY COMPLAINS THAT THEY THINK LIGHTING IS TOO BRIGHT, THEN OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT DIVISION, THEY DO HAVE LIGHT METERS, SO THEY CAN GO OUT AND CHECK AT THE PROPERTY LINE AND VERIFY THAT IT'S NOT CAUSING A NUISANCE.
>> WE HAVE SOME OTHER RESTRICTIONS FOR LIGHTING HEIGHT FOR LIGHT POLE STANDARDS.
THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT FOR LIGHT POLES IN PARKING AREAS UP TO 150 SPACES, IT CAN ONLY BE 25 FEET HIGH AS A MAX, AND THEN IF IT'S 151 OR MORE SPACES, IT CAN BE HIGHER THAN 35 FEET.
AGAIN, IT'S A GOOD THING, YOU DON'T WANT HIRE YOU GET UP IN THE AIR WITH THAT LIGHTING, THEN MORE LIKELY IT IS TO RUIN THAT NIGHT SKY VIEW.
FOR BUILDING MOUNTED LIGHTING.
AGAIN, IF IT EXCEEDS 15 WATTS OR 225 LUMENS, IT HAS TO BE DIRECTED DOWN WITH A FULL CUTOFF FIXTURE.
HERE'S JUST SOME EXAMPLE PHOTOS, WE HAVE THESE IN OUR ORDINANCES, BUT AGAIN, THESE ARE FULL CUTOFF FIXTURES.
THEY'RE COMPLETELY SURROUNDED BY THE FIXTURE, THE LIGHT SOURCES.
FOR FLOOD LIGHTING, LUMINAIRES IS USED FOR FLOOD LIGHTING SHALL NOT DIRECT THE LUMINANTS ABOVE THE FACADE OF THE OBJECT BEING LIGHTED.
THOSE ARE MOUNTED OVERHEAD ON POLES OR BUILDING WALLS, INCLUDED IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS.
SHALL BE INSTALLED THAT THE FIXTURE IS FULL CUTOFF AS DEFINED HEREIN WITH NO LIGHT ABOVE 90 DEGREES.
THIS SHOWS YOU WHAT THAT'S TALKING ABOUT.
THE LIGHTING CAN'T BE ANY HIGHER THAN THAT.
>> BUILDING ENTRY POINTS, CAN'T EXCEED FIVE FOOT CANDLES.
CANOPY LIGHTING OR IF YOU HAVE CANOPIES, THEN THE LIGHTS HAVE TO BE FULLY RECESSED WITH FULL CUTOFF LENSES AND CAN'T EXCEED 45 FOOT CANDLES AT ANY POINT UNDER THE CANOPY.
SPACING. IF YOU HAVE AGAIN UP TO 150 PARKING SPACES, THE MINIMUM SPACING OF LIGHTING POLES SHALL BE NO LESS THAN TWO TIMES THE HEIGHT OF THE STANDARD.
AGAIN, WE'RE ENSURING THAT YOU DON'T PUT A WHOLE BUNCH OF UNNECESSARY LIGHT POLES IN A PARKING LOT EITHER.
WE MAKE THEM BE A CERTAIN DISTANCE APART.
IF THERE ARE MORE THAN 151 SPACES, THEN IT CAN BE NO LESS THAN FOUR TIMES THE HEIGHT OF THE LIGHT STANDARD. FOR PARKING AREA.
LIGHTING SHALL NOT EXCEED A MEASUREMENT OF 15 FOOT CANDLES AT ANY POINT IN THE PARKING AREA.
THE AVERAGE PROJECTED FOOT CANDLE READING BY THE POINT METHOD SHALL NOT EXCEED TWO FOOT CANDLES.
> LEXIN, DO ALL THESE NUISANCE LIGHTING RULES APPLY TO COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME?
>> THEY DO. I HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO THE NONCONFORMING LIGHTING SECTION YET, AND I CHECKED WITH BRIAN TO MAKE SURE BECAUSE LIGHTING IS NOT EXACTLY WRITTEN OUT IN OUR NONCONFORMITY ORDINANCE, BUT OUR NONCONFORMITY ORDINANCE TALKS ABOUT STRUCTURES, AND SO ANY LIGHTING THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH A BUILDING OR A POLE OR WOULD BE A STRUCTURE.
IF IT HAS BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME AND ITS EXIST LEGALLY NON CONFORMING BECAUSE IT WAS PUT IN PLACE BEFORE OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE, THEN WE COULDN'T REQUIRE THEM TO FULLY MEET OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE, BUT WE COULD ENSURE THAT IT'S NOT MEETING OUR NUISANCE STANDARD.
I KNOW YOU HAD ASKED ABOUT A PROPERTY AND CODE ENFORCEMENT HAS BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THEM AND TALKING TO THEM ABOUT REDIRECTING WHERE THE LIGHTS ARE POINTED.
>> I'M SUFFERING. I DON'T WANT TO BE A SQUEAKY WHEEL, BUT I'M JUST WONDERING IF I SHOULD BE. IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL.
IT'S JUST AIMING THE LIGHTS, MAYBE AND MAYBE NOT HAVING THEM ON 24 HOURS A DAY.
MAYBE THEY CAN TURN THEM OFF A COUPLE OF HOURS AFTER EVERYBODY GOES HOME, BUT THAT'S NOT REALLY WHY I WANTED TO HAVE THIS WORK SESSION. I APPRECIATE IT.
>> THAT WAS MY SUMMARY OF ALL OF OUR CURRENT LIGHTING REGULATIONS.
[01:05:04]
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HOW THIS MIGHT COMPARE TO DARK SKY TYPE REGULATIONS, I FOUND THAT THERE IS A TEXAS DARK SKY ORGANIZATION CALLED DARKSKY TEXAS.IT USED TO BE THE INTERNATIONAL DARKSKY ASSOCIATION OF TEXAS, BUT THEY'VE RECENTLY RENAMED THEMSELVES.
BUT IT'S A VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATION.
THEY CREATED A SAMPLE OR A MODEL ORDINANCE FOR DARK SKY LIGHTING, AND PROVIDED THAT ON THEIR WEBSITE IF MUNICIPALITIES WERE LOOKING INTO WHETHER THEY MIGHT WANT TO ADOPT THOSE TYPE OF STANDARDS.
I WENT THROUGH AND COMPARED THE TOWN'S CURRENT REGULATIONS WITH THAT MODEL DARK SKY ORDINANCE JUST TO GIVE YOU THAT AS A REFERENCE POINT.
JUST THE PURPOSE OF THE TEXAS MODEL OUTDOOR LIGHTING ORDINANCE.
REDUCE GLARE, IMPROVE NIGHT TIME VISIBILITY FOR SAFER AND MORE SECURE ATTRACTIVE OUTDOOR LIVING SPACES, ENCOURAGE EFFICIENT CONTROLLED LIGHTING THAT CONSERVES ENERGY, MAKE THE COMMUNITY A BETTER PLACE TO LIVE AND WORK, PROTECT PROPERTIES FROM LIGHT, TRESPASS, RESTORE AND PRESERVE OUR HERITAGE OF A CLEAR DARK NIGHT SKY, HAVE LIGHTS THAT ARE DIRECTED WHERE LIGHT IS WANTED, OR A WARM COLOR AND THE APPROPRIATE MOUNT, AND PREVENT LIGHT AT NIGHT FROM BEING WASTED OFFSITE, OFF PROPERTY OR INTO THE SKY.
I'M NOT GOING TO READ ALL OF THIS BECAUSE IT'S LONG, BUT FLOWER MOUND'S PURPOSE STATEMENT, I THINK REFERENCES MUCH OF THE SAME THING.
TALK ABOUT GOOD OUTDOOR LIGHTING THAT BENEFITS EVERYONE, ENHANCES THE TOWN'S NIGHT TIME CHARACTER.
THERE'S CERTAINLY THE ABILITY TO HAVE VERY POWERFUL LIGHTING AND COULD ALSO BE IMPROPERLY INSTALLED.
DON'T WANT TO HAVE PROBLEMS OF EXCESSIVE GLARE OR LIGHT TRESPASS THAT AFFECT RESIDENTS PRIVACY.
IT CAN CAUSE SAFETY PROBLEMS. WANT TO RECOGNIZE THE BENEFITS OF GOOD OUTDOOR LIGHTING AND PROVIDE CLEAR INSTALLATION DIRECTION. I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY MENTIONED.
PROPERLY REGULATED AND PROPERLY INSTALLED, OUTDOOR LIGHTING WILL CONTRIBUTE TO THE SAFETY AND WELFARE OF THE RESIDENTS OF THE TOWN.
I WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT NON CONFORMING LIGHTING.
THE MODEL ORDINANCE IS VERY STRICT IN HOW IT WANTS PEOPLE TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE.
IT WOULD REQUIRE ALL NON RESIDENTIAL LIGHTING TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE ON A SUBJECT PROPERTY THAT'S PART OF AN APPLICATION FOR REZONING, SUP, PLAT, OR BUILDING PERMIT FOR A MAJOR ADDITION, AND WITHIN 90 DAYS FOR A DEV PERMIT, SIGN PERMIT THAT INCLUDES ILLUMINATION, AN INITIAL TABC PERMIT, AN INITIAL FOOD ESTABLISHMENT PERMIT, AND AN ONSITE SEWAGE FACILITY PERMIT.
THE MODEL ORDINANCE ALSO APPLIES ABANDONMENT AND OTHER NON CONFORMITY STANDARDS TO LIGHTING AND REQUIRES ALL PROPERTIES TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE WITHIN FIVE YEARS WITH WHATEVER THE CURRENT STANDARD IS.
BUT FLOWER MOUND DOESN'T HAVE AN AMORTIZATION PROCESS.
WHEN WE DEAL WITH NON CONFORMITIES, WE ALLOW THEM TO STAY IN PLACE UNLESS IF THEY BECOME ABANDONED, OR IF THEY'RE SWITCHING IT OUT, THEN THEY, OF COURSE, WOULD NEED TO SWITCH IT OUT WITH THE CURRENT ONE.
SIMILAR TO USES AND OTHER STRUCTURES, AS LONG AS IT IS CONTINUALLY USED, AND IT WAS IN COMPLIANCE WHEN IT WAS INITIALLY PUT IN PLACE, IT'S ALLOWED TO STAY IN PLACE.
TO NOT DO THAT, WE WOULD HAVE TO CREATE AN AMORTIZATION PROCESS WHERE YOU BASICALLY WOULD FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH YOU OWE SOMEBODY OR HOW MUCH VALUE THEY'RE LOSING BY DISCONTINUING THEIR USE.
WE'VE NEVER DONE THAT. AGAIN, OUR PROCESS IS MORE THAT WE WOULD JUST REQUIRE IF THEY'RE REPLACING ANYTHING, IF THEY ARE DOING SOME MAJOR CONSTRUCTION PROJECT, THEN ONCE YOU GET OVER 60% OR SO OF YOUR PROPERTY THAT'S CHANGING, WELL, THEN YOU JUST NEED TO BRING IT ALL INTO COMPLIANCE BECAUSE THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF THE VALUE.
YOU SHOULD BE INVESTING THAT AND ACTUALLY COMING INTO COMPLIANCE WITH ALL THE TOWN'S CURRENT STANDARDS.
WE DO HAVE SOME THINGS IN PLACE.
DON'T WANT ALL TO THINK THAT THINGS JUST GET TO STAY FOREVER NO MATTER WHAT,.
BUT IF YOU HAVE EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE AND YOU DON'T CHANGE IT, THEN IT DOES GET TO CONTINUE NORMALLY.
BUT THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THINGS CAN CONTINUE AND BE A NUISANCE.
AGAIN, THE TOWN IS ALWAYS ALLOWED TO PREVENT THINGS FROM BEING A NUISANCE.
THIS IS ACTUALLY DEFINED WITHIN OUR ORDINANCE.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO, REQUIRE THAT NON CONFORMING LIGHTING BE RE AIMED OR SHIELDED, SUCH THAT THE FIXTURE NO LONGER CREATES A NUISANCE.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT AGAIN, TALKING TO CODE ENFORCEMENT, I FOUND THAT THEY DO ACTIVELY DO THAT.
THEY'LL GO OUT WITH THEIR LIGHT METER AND CHECK IF THEY GET COMPLAINTS, AND THEY WILL WORK WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY CAN COME INTO COMPLIANCE.
THERE ARE ALSO STANDARDS WITHIN THE MODEL LIGHTING ORDINANCE THAT APPLY TO RESIDENTIAL LIGHTING.
THEN IN SOME INSTANCES WHERE THEY WOULD CONSIDER RESIDENTIAL LIGHTING, NON RESIDENTIAL.
[01:10:05]
BUT WE DON'T DO THAT.WE DON'T HAVE SPECIFIC STANDARDS FOR RESIDENTIAL LIGHTING.
WE JUST SAY THEY'RE PROHIBITED FROM CREATING LIGHT INTRUSION OR DISABILITY GLARE.
CODE ENFORCEMENT DOES SOMETIMES GET COMPLAINTS ABOUT THAT AND THEY'LL JUST GO OUT AND IT'S LIKE IF IT MAKES YOU CLOSE YOUR EYES, IT'S SO BRIGHT, THEN THAT MIGHT BE SOME DISABILITY GLARE.
AGAIN, GOING THROUGH SOME OF THOSE SPECIFICS.
WITH SHIELDING AND LIGHT OUTPUT, MODEL ORDINANCE REQUIRES ALL NON RESIDENTIAL OUTDOOR LIGHTING TO BE FULLY SHIELDED, SO DOES THE TOWN.
THESE ARE THE WAYS THAT WE'RE MOST SIMILAR.
MODEL ORDINANCE ALLOWS OUTDOOR LIGHT FIXTURES WITH A MAXIMUM OF 200 LUMENS TO BE UNSHIELDED.
WE SAY 15 WATTS OR 225 LUMENS, WHICHEVER IS LESS.
PROHIBITS SAG LENS OR DROP LENS, FIXTURES, MERCURY VAPOR LAMPS, SEARCH LIGHTS, AND STROBE LIGHTS.
WE ALSO PROHIBIT ALL OF THOSE.
MODEL ORDINANCE EXEMPTS HOLIDAY LIGHTING, SO DO WE, DISCOURAGES LIGHT, TRESPASS, SO DO WE.
THIS GIVES YOU A VISIONAL OF WHAT THAT LIGHT TRESPASS MEANS IF IT'S TRESPASSING ONTO AN ADJACENT PROPERTY.
MODEL ORDINANCE REQUIRES UNDER CANOPY LIGHTING TO BE FULLY SHIELDED.
SO DO WE, BUT WE ALLOW THE CANOPY ITSELF TO SERVE AS THE SHIELD.
MODEL ORDINANCE REQUIRES LIGHTING AT PUBLIC AND PRIVATE OUTDOOR SPORTS FACILITIES TO BE SHIELDED TO THE GREATEST PRACTICAL EXTENT TO REDUCE GLARE, SAFETY HAZARDS, LIGHT, TRESPASS, AND LIGHT POLLUTION.
IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE SPECIFIC STANDARDS, EXCEPT TO SAY THAT THEY SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO EXTINGUISH THEM BY 11:00 PM OR WITHIN ONE HOUR OF END OF PLAY AND TO LIMIT THAT COLOR TO A MAXIMUM OF 4,000K.
THE TOWN HAS PRETTY STRICT STANDARDS FOR PRIVATE SPORTS FACILITIES.
WE REQUIRE FULL CUT OFF FIXTURES.
THEY CAN'T EXCEED THE HEIGHT OF 30 FEET, AND THEY HAVE TO BE AT LEAST 40 FEET FROM ANY PROPERTY LINE WITH A MAXIMUM FOOT CANDLE ILLUMINATION OF 20.
PUBLIC SPORTS FACILITIES, THESE ARE OWNED BY THE TOWN OR THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
THEY AREN'T SUBJECT TO THOSE STANDARDS, BUT THEY DO STILL HAVE TO MEET OUR OUTDOOR LIGHTING NUISANCE STANDARDS.
I THINK IN GENERAL, THE TOWN DOES A GOOD JOB OF OPERATING OUR FACILITIES RESPONSIBLY.
I THINK WE'RE LESS CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.
THERE ARE SOME WAYS THAT THEY'RE DISSIMILAR.
THE MODEL ORDINANCE HAD SPECIFIC FOOT CANDLE STANDARDS FOR STREET LIGHTS BASED ON THE ROAD TYPE.
WE HAVE NOT REALLY HAD THE ABILITY TO HAVE INPUT INTO THE BRIGHTNESS OF BULBS THAT WERE USED BY UTILITY PROVIDERS IN THE PAST.
WE CHOSE SPACING REQUIREMENTS OF 600 FEET IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS.
BASICALLY THE LIGHT POLES ARE ABOUT 600 FEET APART AND 200-250 FEET ALONG ARTERIAL STREETS.
THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE WORKED WITH THE UTILITY PROVIDERS ON.
THE MODEL ORDINANCE TALKED ABOUT AN AVERAGE FOOT CANDLE ALONG DIFFERENT ROAD TYPES, WHETHER THEY BE ARTERIAL OR COLLECTOR OR LOCAL STREETS, AND SO WE REALLY NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT.
MODEL ORDINANCE REQUIRES THAT THE CORRELATED COLOR TEMPERATURE OF STREET AND OR AREA LIGHTS NOT EXCEED 2,700 KELVINS.
WE DID PUT IN PLACE THE MAXIMUM OF 3,000 KELVINS FOR NEW CONSERVATION DEVELOPMENTS, BUT WE DON'T HAVE STANDARDS FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE TOWN.
MODEL ORDINANCE REQUIRES ALL EXTERIOR LIGHTING TO BE DIMMED TO 25% OR LESS OF THE TOTAL OUTDOOR LIGHT OUTPUT ALLOWED OR EXTINGUISHED BY 11:00 PPM OR WITHIN ONE HOUR OF CLOSING TIME.
WE AGAIN HAD TRIED TO PUT IN THAT EXTINGUISHED OR DIM BY 11 FOR THE STREET LIGHTS IN THE CROSS TIMBERS, BUT THE UTILITY PROVIDERS HAVE INDICATED THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO DO THAT.
I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE LIMITED ABILITY TO LOOK INTO THAT ONE.
THEN THE MODEL ORDINANCE USES A LUMEN CAP PER NET ACRE OF 100,000 LUMENS FOR NON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.
WE DON'T DO THAT.. WE LOOK AT EACH PROJECT INDIVIDUALLY.
I GUESS BASICALLY IF YOU HAD MULTIPLE NON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES ON ALL ON ONE ACRE OF LAND, THEN I GUESS YOU WOULD JUST LOOK AT ALL OF THEM TOGETHER AND SAY THEY COULDN'T EXCEED 100,000 LUMENS.
BECAUSE WE LOOK AT EACH ONE INDIVIDUALLY AND RESTRICT THEM, I JUST DON'T THINK WE WOULD EVER COME ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THAT.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S A CONCERN WE HAVE.
MODEL ORDINANCE HAS SPECIFIC STANDARDS FOR FLAGPOLES.
IF THEY'RE OVER A CERTAIN HEIGHT, WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU HAD DOWN LIGHTING AND IT HAD SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS.
BUT WE DON'T REGULATE THE ILLUMINATION OF FLAGPOLES.
MODEL ORDINANCE HAS SPECIFIC STANDARDS FOR SIGNS THAT LIMIT THE COLOR AND TRANSLUCENCY OF THE SIGN BACKGROUND AND LETTERING AND REQUIRE THAT SIGNS WITH EXTERNAL LIGHTING BE LIT FROM THE TOP DOWN.
WE DON'T NORMALLY GET INTO THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL WITH PEOPLE'S SIGNS TRYING TO DICTATE THE COLOR OR THE TRANSLUCENCY,
[01:15:02]
THE LETTERS, THAT SORT OF THING.I WOULD SAY, I'M NOT SURE THAT IT'S AS MUCH OF A CONCERN BECAUSE AGAIN, WITH THE MODEL ORDINANCE, IT WAS SAYING THE MAXIMUM SIGN SIZE WAS 200 SQUARE FEET.
I COULD SEE IF YOU HAD A SIGN THAT LARGE, THEN IT WOULD BE MORE OF A CONCERN.
BUT OUR MAXIMUM GROUND SIGN SIZE IS 60 SQUARE FEET.
WE'RE TYPICALLY DEALING WITH MUCH SMALLER SIGNS.
MODEL ORDINANCE HAD SOME SPECIFIC STANDARDS FOR ELECTRONIC MESSAGE CENTERS, BUT WE PROHIBIT EMCS EXCEPT ON A LIMITED BASIS FOR CHURCHES AND SCHOOLS.
AGAIN, I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IT'S WORTH US PUTTING SOME REAL ELABORATE STANDARDS IN PLACE FOR.
THE MODEL ORDINANCE HAD SPECIFIC LIGHTING RESTRICTIONS FOR COMMERCIAL GREENHOUSES.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY GREENHOUSE STANDARDS.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY COMMERCIAL GREENHOUSES, BUT EVEN IF WE DID, THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO MEET OUR NUISANCE STANDARDS FOR LIGHT ESCAPING AT THE PROPERTY LINE.
NOW TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT SOME OF THE INFORMATION I GOT FROM THE UTILITY PROVIDERS.
ONCOR. ACTUALLY GOT GOOD FEEDBACK FROM ONCOR.
I THINK THEY ARE LOOKING INTO MORE OPTIONS TO ADDRESS SOME COMMUNITIES INTEREST IN GOING TOWARD DARK SKY TYPE FIXTURES.
SOME OF THIS INFORMATION, ONCOR IS NOW OFFERING LOWER TEMPERATURE LED FIXTURES.
NOW, THEY DID SAY THAT IF THE TOWN WAS INTERESTED IN DOING THIS, WE WOULD NEED TO DO IT TOWN WIDE.
THEY DON'T REALLY WANT TO DO JUST THE CROSS TIMBERS OR THAT SORT OF THING.
THEY WANT THE TOWN TO BE LIKE, YES, THIS IS THE DIRECTION WE WANT TO GO, AND SO THEN THEY WOULD MAKE THAT CHANGE.
>> DID THEY SAY LEXIN, IT HAS TO BE DONE WHEN EACH ONE IS READY TO BE REPLACED OR IT HAS TO BE ALL ON A SCHEDULE WITHIN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME?
>> IT WOULD DEPEND, I GUESS ON WHAT WE WANTED TO DO.
WHAT THEY SAID IS IF WE SIGNED UP TO MAKE THIS CHANGE, THEN THEY WOULD INITIALLY WANT TO USE UP ALL OF THE EXTRA LIGHT BULBS THEY STILL HAVE [LAUGHTER] THAT ARE THE OLDER TYPE.
BUT THEY SAID THERE WAS PROBABLY ONLY A FEW MONTHS LEFT OF THAT TYPE OF LIGHT BULB.
ONCE THEY USED UP ALL OF THOSE LIGHTBULBS, THEN THEY WOULD START JUST WHENEVER ONE WOULD BURN OUT OR BE READY TO BE REPLACED WITH REGULAR MAINTENANCE, THEY WOULD REPLACE IT WITH WHAT WE HAD SELECTED INSTEAD OF THOSE OLDER TYPE BULBS.
NOW, AGAIN, I THINK WE COULD BE LIKE, NO, WE WANT YOU TO REPLACE ALL OF THESE, BUT WE UNDERSTAND IT'S AT A COST TO US.
OR WE COULD PROBABLY TELL THEM THERE WERE SPECIFIC ONES WE WANTED BIG, AND THAT WOULD BE AT OUR COST FOR THAT EQUIPMENT.
IT REALLY JUST DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH UPFRONT COST THE TOWN WAS WILLING TO PUT INTO THIS.
I THINK IT WOULD BE A RELATIVELY MINIMAL COST IF WE WERE WILLING TO JUST WAIT AND HAVE THEM SWITCH THEM OUT AS THEY NEEDED TO BE SWITCHED AND AS THEY RAN OUT OF THE OTHER LIGHT BULBS.
>> I THINK IT WOULD LOOK WEIRD, THOUGH, TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, IF YOU HAVE WITHIN A NEIGHBORHOOD.
THEY'RE 600 FEET APART, SO MAYBE YOU DON'T SEE THEM IN A STRETCH.
BUT IF YOU HAVE ONE, THAT'S A DIFFERENT COLOR.
YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IT RIGHT AWAY. IT'S GOING TO LOOK BAD ON A STREET.
BUT THE OTHER QUESTION I HAD WAS ABOUT THE ACTUAL FIXTURE THEMSELVES.
I HAVE AMERICAN IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD.
I GUESS, DO WE ALL HAVE AMERICAN EVERYWHERE IN TOWN? IS THAT?
>> I DON'T THINK THEY'RE EVERYWHERE, BUT I'M NOT SURE.
I DO THINK THE AMERICAN TYPE ONE IS WHAT'S IN MOST OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AS WELL.
NOW, THE AMERICANS ARE NOT DARK SKY COMPLIANT BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT FULLY SHIELD.
THEY DON'T HAVE THAT TOP ON THEM LIKE THESE OTHER ONES DO.
I THINK THEY HAVE SOME OTHER ONES, ALSO.
I JUST TOOK THIS OUT AS A SUBSET.
BUT THE MESSAGE I GOT FROM THEM WAS THAT ONLY THE ACORN TYPE FIXTURES, WHICH IN THIS IMAGE IS THE AMERICAN ONE IS NOT DARK SKY COMPLIANT BECAUSE ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE THE TOP SO THAT IT DIRECTS THE LIGHT DOWN.
FOR ALL OF THEIR OTHER FIXTURES, THEY CAN DO THE 3,000 KELVINS.
FOR THE ACORN, THEY CAN ONLY DO THE 4,000 KELVINS.
>> THANKS. NOW, AND THEN IT SAID WE COULD CHOOSE 3,000 OR 4,000K, AND THEY SAID THEY RECOMMEND THAT RETAIL CUSTOMERS NOT MIX THE TWO.
BUT YEAH, WE WOULD HAVE TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT THAT BECAUSE AGAIN, I'M JUST NOT SURE IF WE DON'T WANT TO REPLACE ALL OF THE ACORN FIXTURES WITH OTHER FIXTURES, THEN IT CAN ONLY DO 4,000.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT COUNSEL'S DIRECTION MIGHT BE.
BUT IF YOU WANTED TO LOOK INTO THIS, WE COULD SEE IF THEY COULD DO 4,000 IN ALL OF THEM. I DON'T KNOW.
>> I JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW MUCH IT WOULD BE, BECAUSE IF IT'S NOMINAL COST, THEN MAYBE WE COULD FIT IT IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS BUDGET, LIKE WE DO THE SIDEWALKS, A CERTAIN AMOUNT EVERY YEAR, OR SOMEONE CAN BE REALLY INVENTIVE AND COME UP WITH A CAP FOR
[01:20:02]
THE AMERICAN A LITTLE RETROFIT THING LIKE, AS I LOSE MY PEN.>> ENCORE WILL NOT LET US DO ANYTHING TO THEIR LIGHT FIXTURES.
ENCORE WOULD HAVE TO COME UP WITH A CREATIVE CAFE OR BECAUSE [OVERLAPPING].
>> THEY WON'T EVEN LET US PAINT THEM. DID YOU KNOW THAT?
>> I DID NOT KNOW THAT, BUT I KNEW THAT THEY WOULDN'T LET US.
>> THEY WERE LOOKING REALLY NASTY IN OUR HOA, WE HAD TO CALL THEM AND WE HAD TO PAY FOR THEM.
THEY HAVE TO DO IT, YOU HAVE TO PAY THEM.
>> DOES COSERV HAVE SOME FIXTURES IN TOWN AS WELL?
AGAIN, ONLY THE MORE ACORN TYPE 1 IS NOT DARKSKY COMPLIANT.
I BELIEVE THIS ONE WOULD BE THE 4,000K, BUT I WOULD NEED TO DOUBLE CHECK THAT WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY SAY THEY OFFER BOTH 3,000-4,000K LIGHTING OPTIONS.
I KNOW THEY TOLD ME THEY COULD DO THE 3,000 IN EITHER THE FRISCO OR THE EURO BECAUSE THAT CAME UP WITH THE MONTECINO NEIGHBORHOOD.
THAT WAS THE FIRST NEW NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WENT INTO THE CROSS TIMBERS AFTER WE HAD ADOPTED OUR NEW STANDARD.
WAS WORKING WITH COSERV ON THAT AND THEY CONFIRMED THEY COULD DO EITHER OF THESE TWO THE FRISCO OR THE EURO WITH THE 3,000 KELVINS AND IT WOULD MEET THAT FULL CUT OFF STANDARD.
SO IT WOULD ONLY BE THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A DIMMER OR TIMER AVAILABLE.
>> WOULD WE STILL BE DARKSKY WITH THE 4,000 KELVINS?
>> WELL, I MEAN, WE'RE NOT WE'RE NOT GETTING LIKE A DARKSKY CERTIFICATION.
WE'RE MOVING IN THE DIRECTION OF DARKSKY.
I THINK WE CAN MAKE IT WHATEVER WE FEEL LIKE WORKS FOR THE TOWN.
THEN JUST TO GO A LITTLE FURTHER.
IN TALKING TO PUBLIC WORKS, THERE WERE PLACES WHERE THEY DID NOT THINK 3,000 KELVIN WOULD WORK.
SPECIFICALLY FOR ARTERIAL STREET LIGHTS AND THE FLYOVER JUST BECAUSE OF HIGHER SPEED ROADWAYS AND WANTING TO ENSURE BETTER SAFETY.
THEN ALSO, THE LIGHTING ASSOCIATED WITH OUR TRAFFIC SIGNALS, SAID THOSE WOULD NEED TO BE AT LEAST 4,000 KELVIN, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THE VIDEO DETECTION WORKS.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO TO 3,000 KELVINS EVERYWHERE IF WE WANTED TO, BUT WE'RE JUST EXPLORING ALL OF THE OPPORTUNITIES.
>> IT SEEMS THAT MAYBE NEIGHBORHOODS, IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT MORE IMPORTANT.
IT WOULD BE A BIGGER BANG MAYBE FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
>> NOW ON THE OTHER HAND, IT MIGHT BE A FAIRLY LARGE EXPENSE THOUGH IF MOST OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE THE ACORNS.
AGAIN, I THINK THE 3,000 KELVINS IS NICER IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS, BUT I'M NOT SURE IF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD WOULD WANT TO SWITCH OUT ALL THOSE FIXTURES, IF THE TOWN WOULD WANT TO TAKE OVER THE COST OF SWITCHING OUT ALL THE FIXTURES, THINGS TO THINK ABOUT. I'M SORRY.
>> TRAFFIC IS SPECIFICALLY WORRIED ABOUT THE SIGNAL EQUIPMENT ON INTERSECTIONS THAT HAVE SIGNALS.
ONLY. ARE THEY SUGGESTING THAT THE NEWER TECHNOLOGY IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH OLD SODIUM VAPOR LIGHTS? IS THAT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING HERE?
>> NO, I THINK THEY'RE SAYING THAT IF WE SWITCHED, THEY WOULD NOT WANT TO SWITCH TO 3,000 KELVINS.
THEY WOULD RATHER SWITCH TO, AGAIN, THE 3,000 IS A LITTLE WARMER AND THE 4,000 IS A LITTLE BRIGHTER, MORE A LITTLE BRIGHTER.
THEY WERE WORRYING ABOUT THE DETECTION TECHNOLOGY WORKING AS WELL IN THE WARMER TONED LIGHTING.
>> I GUESS THAT WE'VE HAD THOSE WARM THAT'S THE TRADITIONAL LIGHT.
I KNOW I KNOW WE STILL HAVE IT IN SOME INTERSECTIONS.
I GUESS MAYBE IF THE DETECTION EQUIPMENT IS BRAND NEW AND IS ONLY COMPATIBLE WITH LIGHTS THAT HAVE BEEN IN PLACE FOR A FEW YEARS, BUT IF IT WAS IN PLACE WITH LIGHTS THAT WE'VE HAD GOING BACK DECADES, THEN IT THEN, I WOULDN'T.
>> I THINK THEY'RE TALKING MORE ABOUT I BELIEVE ARE THERE IS LIGHTING THAT'S ACTUALLY LIKE AS PART OF THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL, NOT THE STREET LIGHTS, BUT THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL ITSELF.
I'M NOT A PUBLIC WORKS EXPERT.
SO I'M I'M REPEATING BACK THE INFORMATION I GATHERED.
WAS THAT THERE WAS SOME CONCERN ABOUT SOME OF THE NEWER TRAFFIC DETECTION EQUIPMENT WORKING.
THEN I GUESS THIS IS FROM THE FHWA LIGHTING HANDBOOK.
IT RECOMMENDS 4,000 K LIGHT SOURCES.
[01:25:02]
THEN JUST LOOKING AT CRIME PREVENTION.I DID TALK TO THE CHIEF AND SAID, HE WOULD JUST BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE CEPTED PREVENTION THROUGH ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN STANDARDS.
THE RECOMMENDED LIGHTING FROM THOSE STANDARDS ARE BRIGHT WHITE WITH NO COLOR, BUT THIS RECOMMENDATION IS PRETTY OLD BEFORE THERE WERE A LOT OF CHOICES ON THE COLOR SPECTRUM.
YOU DIDN'T HAVE A DEFINITE RECOMMENDATION, BUT YOU CAN SEE JUST FROM THIS EXAMPLE, THAT THE POINT BEHIND IS JUST FOR THINGS TO BE WELL LIT.
SOME OF THE OTHER CEPTED RECOMMENDATIONS, AVOID POORLY PLACED LIGHTS, THAT CREATE BLIND SPOTS.
ENSURE ALL THESE THINGS ARE WELL LIT.
AVOID TOO BRIGHT SECURITY LIGHTING THAT CAN CREATE BLINDING GLARE AND DEEP SHADOWS.
USE SHIELDED OR CUT OFF LUMINARIES TO CONTROL GLARE, AND THEN PLACING LIGHTING ALONG PATHWAYS AND OTHER PEDESTRIAN USE AREAS AT PROPER HEIGHTS FOR LIGHTING THE FACES OF PEOPLE.
IT WAS JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME IDEA OF WHAT WE CURRENTLY SEE AT NIGHTTIME IN SOME PLACES IN FLOWER MOUND.
DOWN HERE, THIS IS PARKER SQUARE.
THIS IS THE RIVER-WALK, NOT QUITE AS DEBT OF NIGHT THERE.
SAME THING WITH MARKET STREET HERE.
THERE'S NOT COMPLETELY PITCH DARK YET.
THIS IS TOM THUMB HERE IN THE MIDDLE.
THEN THIS IS THE VICTORY SHOPS.
THAT'S THE END OF MY PRESENTATION.
I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. TAKE ANY DIRECTION?
>> I JUST HAD A CLARIFYING QUESTION.
THE STANDARD YOU SHOWED AT THE BEGINNING, THAT THAT DOESN'T IMPACT RESIDENTIAL, BUT DOES THAT MEAN RESIDENTIAL THAT INDIVIDUALS OWN OR DEVELOPMENTS THAT HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE GETTING DEVELOPED? LIKE A LARGE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT THAT'S BEING BUILT UP, DOES THAT STILL APPLY TO IT?
>> DO YOU MEAN LIKE WHILE IT'S BEING CONSTRUCTED?
>> I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE THEY DON'T USUALLY WORK AT NIGHT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WOULD BE AS MUCH OF A CONCERN?
>> NO. I MEAN, I GUESS AS THE HOUSE IS GETTING BUILT, BUILDING IT TO THAT STANDARD OR DOES IT NOT APPLY?
>> IT DOESN'T APPLY FOR THE CROSS TIMBERS CONSERVATION STANDARDS?
>> NO, IT DOESN'T APPLY TO THE RESIDENTIAL HOUSES.
PEOPLE COULD MEET IT. THERE'S NOTHING LIGHT-BULBS ARE AVAILABLE IN ALL THESE DIFFERENT COLORS.
>> I GUESS WHAT I'M ASKING IS, CAN WE APPLY IT TO NEW BUILDS, BUT NOT MAKE IT A REQUIREMENT FOR RESIDENTS WHO LIVE THERE? AS THEY'RE BUILDING A HOUSE OR A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, CAN WE REQUIRE IT FOR THAT?
>> I GUESS I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE [OVERLAPPING] A NEW HOUSE.
BUT I'M NOT SURE WHAT WE WOULD BE REQUIRING OF THE NEW HOUSE, BECAUSE I DON'T I DON'T THINK THE NEW HOUSES THEY'RE NOT PUTTING IN FLOOD LIGHTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
I MEAN, BECAUSE IT WOULD BE AN EXTRA EXPENSE FOR THEM.
THEY WOULD JUST THEY WOULD JUST DO THE BASICS, AND THEN WHENEVER THE RESIDENT OCCUPIES THE HOME, NOW THEY MIGHT WANT TO PUT IN EXTRA LIGHTING.
BUT I DON'T THINK THE BUILDER IS PUTTING IN A WHOLE LOT OF EXTRA LIGHTING THAT WOULD BE A CONCERN.
>> TYPICALLY, WOULDN'T IT BE JUST LIKE GARAGE, CARRIAGE LIGHTS, AND FRONT DOOR LIGHTS, THE [INAUDIBLE].
>> WELL, I MEAN, ITS TOMS. I GUESS BULL [OVERLAPPING] YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT UP LIGHTS AND DOWN LIGHTS, AND I MEAN, ARE THEY ARE WE REQUIRING THOSE TO BE DARKSKY COMPLIANT?
>> NO. WE DON'T WE DON'T REQUIRE ANYTHING ON RESIDENCES THEMSELVES, EXCEPT WE DO APPLY THAT DISABILITY GLARE.
IF A NEIGHBOR CALLED IN AND IT WAS CLEARLY DOING THIS, SHINING INTO DIRECTLY INTO THEIR WINDOW, THEN THEN YES, WE WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO GO TALK TO THE ADJACENT NEIGHBOR ABOUT IT.
>> BUT I'LL JUST ADD EXAMPLE TO THAT.
IT WAS A NEWER NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE THE NEIGHBOR HAD THE RESIDENT JUST MOVED IN AND THEY ADDED SOFFIT LIGHTING ON THE SECOND STORY, AND IT WAS ADJACENT TO A NEIGHBOR THAT HAD BEEN THERE, AND THEY CALLED IN TO CODE ENFORCEMENT ABOUT THE LIGHT IN INTRUSION AND DISABILITY GLARE.
WE WENT OUT THERE AT NIGHT, TOOK THE MEASUREMENTS.
IT DIDN'T VIOLATE THE TOWN'S CODE AT THE PROPERTY LINE, BUT IT STILL CREATED THAT DISABILITY GLARE.
WE WORKED WITH THAT OWNER TO ADDRESS THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE LIGHTS AND MAKE SURE THAT HE THEY WEREN'T CASTING IT DIRECTLY INTO THE SIDE WINDOWS OF THAT RESIDENT WHO WAS COMPLAINING.
>> TELL ME, THAT'S BASED ON RULES ALREADY ON THE BOOKS.
NOTHING THAT'S BEING PROPOSED TO BE CHANGED?
[01:30:01]
>> CHRIS, WHAT I WAS AFTER IN THIS WAS MORE ABOUT STREET SIDE LIGHTING AND PARKING LOTS, NOT NECESSARILY ANYTHING SOMEONE'S DOING AT THEIR OWN HOME.
>> I MEAN, I GUESS IN THE PAST, I HAVE GOTTEN SOME COMMENTS AND I THINK SOME OF THE TOLL BROTHERS DEVELOPMENTS OF HAVING TONS OF UP LIGHTS AND TONS DOWN LIGHTS AND HAVING REALLY BRIGHT FRONT HOUSES.
I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE NECESSARILY DARKSKY COMPLIANT, BUT THE ONE OR TWO COMPLAINTS.
>> WE HAD A COUPLE OF THINGS IN THERE ABOUT THE LIGHTS NEED TO BE COVERED BY THE EAVES OF THE HOUSE IF THEY'RE POINTED UP.
WASN'T THAT ONE OF THE ITEMS AND THE RESIDENTIAL OR IS THAT JUST IN THE CROSS TIMBERS?
>> THAT'S THAT'S JUST LET SEE.
>> WOULD THAT APPLY THOUGH? I THOUGHT IT DOESN'T APPLY TO A RESIDENTIAL?
>> WELL, THAT WAS SPECIFIC TO RESIDENTIAL.
>> WELL, BUT THIS IS IT'S IT'S ONLY TO HOA LOTS.
IT'S FOR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, BUT THE FEEDBACK WE GOT WAS THAT WE DIDN'T WANT TO APPLY STANDARDS TO SPECIFIC RESIDENTS.
>> IF TOLL BROTHERS IS BUILDING A NEIGHBORHOOD, THE RULES WOULD APPLY, BUT ONCE SOMEBODY MOVES INTO THAT HOUSE, IF THEY WANT TO RECONFIGURE THE LIGHTING, THEN THEY'RE FREE TO DO SO.
>> WE WOULD REALLY JUST BE LOOKING AT IT WHEN IT'S BEING OCCUPIED OR USED BY THE HOA.
IF YOU'RE JUST SAYING THAT TOLL BROTHERS IS BUILDING A HOUSE FOR SOMEBODY ELSE, BUT THEY'RE NOT USING IT AS LIKE THEIR MODEL HOME OR THEN WE WOULDN'T BE LOOKING AT IT.
>> ARE THERE SOME STANDARDS WE CAN ENCOURAGE FOR NEW BUILDS? I DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT A ENFORCEMENT THING.
I THINK WHAT MAKES IT MORE NOTICEABLE TOO IS THAT A LOT OF THE NEWER HOMES HAVE WHITE STUCCO.
IT'S SO REFLECTIVE JUST A LITTLE BIT OF LIGHT, IT'S LIKE, HERE IT IS.
>> I'M JUST CURIOUS IF MAYBE WE COULD ENCOURAGE AS RESIDENTIAL TO USE DARKSKY FIXTURES.
>> WE CAN TRY TO PUT TOGETHER LIKE A HANDOUT THAT WOULD GO IN WITH NEW BUILD PACKETS WITH RECOMMENDATIONS.
I MEAN, I THINK PART OF THE CONCERN IS, I WOULD THINK, IS THAT IF YOU HAVE A RESIDENT THAT'S TELLING YOU THEY HAVE SAFETY CONCERNS AND THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE WHATEVER LIGHTING AROUND THEIR HOUSE, I DON'T THINK THE TOWN WANTS TO BE TELLING THEM NO. YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
>> THAT'S MAYBE A ONE OFF CASE FOR THE LARGER RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS THAT BUILT UP.
CAN WE ENCOURAGE THEM TO USE MORE DARKSKY COMPLIANT FIXTURES?
>>I THINK THE ONLY WAY THAT WOULD BE EFFECTIVE IS IF WE OFFERED SOME INCENTIVE BECAUSE WE CAN AGE AND WE COULD SAY, WE WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO DO THAT, BUT IF IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FINANCIALLY, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO OR AESTHETICALLY.
WE WOULD HAVE TO INCENTIVE IT.
I DON'T KNOW IF I WANT TO GET INTO THAT.
>> I THINK I AGREE WITH WHAT CHRIS IS SAYING THAT IF WE SAY TO PROSPECT OF DEVELOPERS, WE'RE TRYING TO BE DARKSKIES COMPLIANT.
HERE'S THE STANDARDS FOR LIGHTING AND RESIDENT LANDSCAPE LIGHTING AND UP LIGHTING AND WHAT WE WOULD PREFER.
THAT MIGHT AT LEAST GIVE THEM SOME DIRECTION.
I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT IF THEY THINK THAT LIGHTING THE HOUSE UP LIKE TIMES SQUARE IS GOING TO HELP IT SELF FASTER THAN THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.
BUT I DON'T SEE ANY HARM IN WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING LEX AND WHAT CHRIS IS ASKING FOR.
>> I AGREE AND I THINK RESIDENTS JUST JUST BEING EDUCATED ALSO, WHAT THIS GOAL IS AND HOW THEIR LIGHTS FACING UP ARE ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTING TO THE PROBLEMS. I DON'T THINK IT'S A BAD IDEA.
>> I'M GOOD WITH ENCOURAGING THE DARK SIDE COMPLIANT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO INCENTIVIZE IT.
ALSO, A LOT OF THE HOMES THAT I'VE SEEN THAT HAVE THE UP WASH LIGHTS ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
THERE'S A SOFTEN OR AND EVE ABOVE THAT.
IT IS DARKSKY COMPLIANT BASICALLY.
I'M GOOD WITH THE ENCOURAGEMENT.
>> WHAT I WAS AFTER IN THIS WORK SESSION ITEM WAS, I WOULD LIKE TO US TO ADOPT A TOWN WIDE RESIDENCE ORDINANCE THAT REQUIRES THE LOWEST POSSIBLE KELVIN LIGHTING, SUB 3,000 FOR SURE.
NOW THAT IT SOUNDS LIKE ENCORE IS MAKING THAT AVAILABLE TO US THEN.
IF WE COULD AGGRESSIVELY IMPLEMENT IT, I CERTAINLY WOULD SUPPORT DOING IT ON WHOLE CORRIDORS, IF POSSIBLE, NOT JUST ONE AND 2ZS, BUT MOSTLY AS WE REPLACE OUR OWN LIGHTS, THAT WE TRY TO USE THE LOWEST POSSIBLE KELVIN LIGHT.
SOUNDS LIKE AIMING AND SHROUDING IS ALREADY ACCOUNTED FOR.
LOWER MORE CONSISTENT LIGHTING.
FROM WHAT I WAS READING IN THIS STUDY OF STUDIES, BECAUSE I WAS CONCERNED THAT THERE WOULD BE A SAFETY COMPROMISE IF WE DID THIS.
BUT WHAT THIS DOCUMENT SAID WAS THAT
[01:35:03]
THE BRIGHT WHITE LIGHTS ACTUALLY HAVE A DAZZLING EFFECT, AND I THINK WE'VE ALL SEEN THOSE HEAD LIGHTS COMING AND THERE THOSE BRIGHT BLUE AND THEY DAZZLE YOUR EYES.WELL, IT HAS A NEGATIVE EFFECT ON DRIVERS WHEN THEIR OVERHEAD LIGHTS ARE DOING THE SAME THING.
ALSO WHEN WE HAVE BRIGHT WHITE LIGHTS, AND YOU GO INTO A BRIGHT LIGHT AND THEN INTO A DARK AREA, YOU'RE BLINDED ESSENTIALLY BECAUSE THE BRIGHT LIGHTS THEY MAKE YOU LOSE YOUR NIGHT VISION.
VERY QUICK AND TEMPERATURE MATTERS.
THE TEMPERATURE OF THE COLOR MATTERS.
HAVING LOWER LIGHTS, BUT MORE CONSISTENT IS BETTER.
IN FACT, THE PAPER EVEN SAID THAT THE BRIGHT LIGHTS ARE WORSE THAN IF THE LIGHT NEVER EXISTED AT ALL. THAT'S A QUOTE.
>> WELL, IT'S INTERESTING TO GO THROUGH THIS BECAUSE I HAVE A VISCERAL REACTION TO THESE BRIGHT WHITE LIGHTS.
I THINK I SAW THE ONES THAT WENT IN AT LUSK AND 1171, AND I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ME, BUT IT SAID IN THIS PAPER THAT THE FEEDBACK THEY GET FROM OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE PUT IN LEDS IS THAT PEOPLE THINK IT MAKES THEIR TOWN LOOK LIKE A PRISON YARD.
TO ME, IT MAKES THE TOWN LOOK LIKE A PARKING LOT, AND APPARENTLY IT'S BECAUSE WE EVOLVED TO HAVE WOOD FIRE LIGHT OR CANDLE LIGHT.
THINGS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DARK AND AMBER AT NIGHT.
THAT'S THE WAY OUR PHYSIOLOGY IS AND THAT'S WHY IT HAS A NEGATIVE EFFECT NOT JUST ON US, BUT ON WILDLIFE TOO, APPARENTLY.
I REALLY THINK THIS IS WORTH DOING, AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US DO IT AS AGGRESSIVELY AND AS BROADLY AS POSSIBLE.
>> I LIKE THE IDEA OF MINIMIZING THE TEMPERATURE, 03,000 KELVINS OR WHATEVER.
THE OPEN QUESTION I HAVE IS ON THESE STREET LIGHTS.
IF WE HAVE A LOT OF THE AMERICAN FIXTURES, WHAT'S IT GOING TO TAKE TO CHANGE THAT OUT AND WHAT'S THAT EXPENSE GOING TO BE, AND WHO PAYS FOR IT, AND HOW QUICKLY CAN WE DO IT? I'D LIKE TO UNDERSTAND SOME MORE ABOUT THE LOGISTICS, THE COST, AND WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO DO THAT, BUT I'M CERTAINLY OPEN TO EXPLORING IT.
>> OR MAYBE A FEASIBILITY STUDY.
>> LET ME JUST SAY, IF YOU DON'T MIND, I'M SORRY.
>> THAT IT WASN'T VERY LONG AGO THAT ONCOR SAID THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY OPTIONS AT ALL FOR US, AND NOW THEY HAVE OPTIONS FOR US ON EVERYTHING, BUT WE MIGHT JUST NEED TO WAIT A LITTLE BIT.
>> OTHER PEOPLE, THAT'S WHERE YOU ALL ARE? [NOISE]
>> I'D LIKE FEASIBILITY STUDY, SEE WHAT'S GOING TO COST.
>> DO YOU WANT TO WAIT SINCE WE DON'T KNOW IF THE TECHNOLOGY WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR MAYBE SEVERAL MORE MONTHS? PLUS, I DON'T WANT THEM TO USE ALL THEIR OLD LIGHT BULBS ON US.
[LAUGHTER] WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO DO THE FEASIBILITY STUDY MAYBE SIX MONTHS FROM NOW AS A TARGET DATE?
>> WELL, I WOULD ADOPT THE ORDINANCE CHANGE TO REQUIRE THE LIGHTS RIGHT AWAY.
BUT I WOULD NOT REQUIRE THE LIGHTS TO BE CHANGED IF THEY CAN'T BE CHANGED.
YOU HAVE A CARVE OUT FOR ACORN LIGHTS, AND IF SOMETHING BURNS OUT AND YOU NEED A NEW BULB, YOU GET THE EXISTING BULB.
BUT THE FEASIBILITY STUDY COMES INTO, CAN WE RETROFIT LIGHTS OR IS THERE A PATHWAY FORWARD FOR ONES THAT CANNOT BE UPGRADED ON THE NORMAL SCHEDULE?
>> THE ORDINANCE IS PERTAINING TO COMMERCIAL LIGHTING AND OUR STREET LIGHTS, OR IS IT JUST POLICY? WOULD IT BE POLICY IF IT'S PERTAINING TO THE STREET LIGHTS VERSUS ACTUAL ORDINANCE?
>> IF WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT OUR STREET LIGHTS, I THINK, YOU CAN JUST TELL US WHAT TO DO.
THE ONE REASON WE WANTED TO DO THE ORDINANCE IN THE CROSS TIMBERS IS BECAUSE IT DID APPLY TO HOA STRUCTURES.
ALSO, JUST TO HAVE ALL THAT INFORMATION WRITTEN DOWN TO SHOW PEOPLE, BECAUSE IT WAS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE'RE DOING ALL OVER THE REST OF THE TOWN.
WE DEFINITELY WANTED TO HAVE THAT.
IF WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE TOWN'S STREET LIGHTS, THEN I DON'T THINK WE NECESSARILY NEED AN ORDINANCE FOR THAT.
YOU CAN JUST TELL US WHAT TO DO.
IF YOU'RE TRYING TO APPLY IT TO OTHER COMMERCIAL, THEN WE WOULD NEED AN ORDINANCE.
>> PARKING LOTS. I WOULD HAVE THE ORDINANCE.
>> EVERYBODY WANTS TO APPLY IT. WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT PARKING LOT LIGHTS.
>> WE HAVE STREET LIGHTS, OUR OWN.
WHAT ELSE WOULD THERE BE? I DON'T WANT TO MISS ANYTHING.
>> THERE'S OTHER LIGHTS THAT ARE LIKE ON BUILDINGS OR WHATEVER. I DON'T KNOW THAT.
>> I DON'T KNOW THAT, I'M JUST CONCERNED.
>> THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT THINGS TO THE BRIGHTNESS OR THE ACTUAL LUMENS, THE AMOUNT OF LIGHT IT PUTS OUT VERSUS THE TEMPERATURE OF THE LIGHT.
YOU CAN STILL HAVE A WELL-LIGHTED AREA, BUT A WARMER TEMPERATURE.
HOPEFULLY, THE SAFETY CONCERNS WOULDN'T BE TERRIBLE.
>> BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T BE CHANGING.
IT WOULD STILL BE USING OUR SAME STANDARD FOR
[01:40:02]
THE ACTUAL AMOUNT OF LIGHT THAT COULD BE PUT OUT, SO THAT WOULDN'T BE CHANGING.IT WOULD JUST BE THE TEMPERATURE.
>> THERE'S NOT MUCH OPTIONS FOR US ANYWAY.
WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A PATHWAY TO DIM THE LIGHTS.
>> FOR THE STREET LIGHTS, NO, IT'S GOING TO BE WHATEVER THE UTILITY PROVIDERS PROVIDE.
>> THAT'S FINE. I THINK THE STANDARDS WE HAVE IN TERMS OF BRIGHTNESS ARE EXCELLENT. THEY'RE EXCELLENT.
>> LIKE A DIMMING, OR HOW ABOUT MOTION DETECTION, LIKE FOR PARKING GARAGES OR SOMETHING? THEY'RE NOT ON 24/7, BUT THEY'RE SENSITIVE TO THE DETECTION OF MOTION, SO THEY WOULD COME ON IF THERE'S MOVEMENT.
>> IT PROBABLY IS. [OVERLAPPING]
>> YOU WOULD POTENTIALLY HAVE A CONCERN IF THE MOTION WASN'T WORKING OR SOMETHING, AND THEN IT STAYED DARK AND THEN, I DON'T KNOW.
>> WELL, OR IF SOMEBODY WAS HIDING.
>> BUT THEN WHEN THEY NOT HIDE.
>> THEY NOT HIDE WHEN THEY JUMP OUT.
>> ARE WE STILL WANTING THAT FEASIBILITY STUDY STILL?
>> [OVERLAPPING] IF WE'RE GOING TO DO OUR OWN STREET LIGHTS, THEN YES, I WANT TO KNOW WELL IN ADVANCE.
>> BUT I GUESS WHAT WE'RE SAYING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH REPLACING THEM WITH 3,000 K.
>> IN THE ORDINANCE FOR PARKING LOTS.
>> NO, THAT'S ALREADY IN THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT.
>> I GUESS WE'RE GOING TO DO TWO THINGS. WE'RE GOING TO DO AN ORDINANCE FOR THE PARKING LOTS, AND WE'RE GOING TO DIRECT STAFF TO DO A FEASIBILITY STUDY OR PERFORM A FEASIBILITY STUDY SO THAT WE CAN START REPLACING OUR LIGHTS WITH THE 3,000 KELVIN.
>> THE FEASIBILITY STUDY WOULD BE MARCH-ISH.
>> NO RUSH. I'M NOT. [OVERLAPPING]
>> IF YOU GUYS ARE OKAY WITH THAT JUST TO HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY CATCH UP.
>> IF WE JUST WAIT, EVENTUALLY, THEY'LL ALL GET TAKEN CARE OF, BUT THERE MIGHT BE SOME OPPORTUNITY TO BE A LITTLE MORE AGGRESSIVE IF THE COST ISN'T TOO HIGH.
>> THE ONLY THING I'M THINKING IS IF WE COULD DO THE FEASIBILITY STUDY BEFORE OUR NEXT BUDGET SESSION.
THAT WAY WE HAVE THAT INFORMATION GOING INTO BUDGET [OVERLAPPING] THE NEXT YEAR.
>> ALSO, I WOULD NOT WANT TO NECESSARILY DO THEM ALL AT THE SAME TIME BECAUSE THEN THEIR USEFUL LIFE WOULD EXPIRE ALL AT THE SAME TIME AND THEN THE BILL IS HUGE.
[LAUGHTER] IF WE COULD ROLL THEM IN SOMEHOW.
>> I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE, FOR ANYTHING THAT YOU'RE WANTING TO BE PROACTIVE ABOUT.
AS FAR AS JUST STUFF THAT GETS REPLACED AS IT BURNS OUT, I THINK THAT'LL BE FINE.
THAT WON'T BE AN EXTRA COST TO THE TOWN, BUT IF YOU'RE REALLY WANTING TO SWITCH OUT WHOLE STREETS OF ACORN LIGHTS, IT'S GOING TO BE COSTLY.
>> WELL, THE FIXTURE IS DIFFERENT THAN THE BALL TOO.
IN THE FEASIBILITY STUDY, CAN WE GET THE ESTIMATE OF WHAT THE FIXTURES WILL COST AS WELL, IF WE REALLY WANTED TO GO DARKSKY COMPLIANT SOMEDAY?
>> YES. I WILL SEE WHAT ALL INFORMATION I CAN GET FROM OUR UTILITY PROVIDERS SO THAT YOU CAN MAKE AS INFORMED A DECISION AS POSSIBLE.
>> WE DO HAVE SOME NEW DEVELOPMENT COMING IN THE WEST, AND HOW WILL THIS IMPACT THEIR PLANS FOR THEIR AESTHETIC, BECAUSE I KNOW THEY HAVE VERY SPECIFIC WAYS THEY WANT IT TO LOOK? WE MIGHT WANT TO THINK ABOUT THAT.
>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DARK SKIES.
ARE YOU ALL WANTING TO LOOK AT GETTING CERTIFIED AS DARK SKIES OR JUST BE SEMI-DEFIANT?
>> I WANT TO HEAD IN THAT DIRECTION.
>> ENCOURAGE, AND WHERE WE HAVE CONTROL, GO THAT WAY.
>> I'M HAPPY TO SPEAK TO THAT.
I'VE ALWAYS CHARACTERIZED OUR STANDARD AS DARKSKY LIGHT, AND I THINK WE'RE GETTING A LITTLE BIT HEAVIER WITH OUR ACTIONS AND DIRECTIONS TONIGHT.
BUT JUST TO MAKE SURE I SET THE EXPECTATION WHEN WE EVALUATED DARKSKY CERTIFICATION BACK IN 2021, FOR COMMUNITY OF OUR SIZE, IT IS A MINIMUM THREE, THERE-AND-A-HALF-YEAR PROCESS.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT IT'S RECOMMENDED THAT THE TOWN DO ON ITS OWN, SO WE REACHED OUT AND GOT A QUOTE TO DO THAT.
THAT WASN'T FUNDED, BUT AS WE'VE DISCUSSED A COUPLE OF TIMES RELATIVE TO THE RESIDENTIAL ASPECT OF THAT, TO GET CERTIFICATION, THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS FOR RESIDENTIAL AND THERE'S A WHOLE AMORTIZATION THAT LEXIN COVERED.
THERE'S A HUGE PUBLIC OUTREACH, AND PART OF THAT CERTIFICATION REQUIRES BUY-IN BY THE UTILITY COMPANIES, THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS, THE COUNTY, ALL THOSE QUASI GOVERNMENTAL INSTITUTIONS, AS WELL AS YOUR BUSINESS COMMUNITY, BECAUSE I THINK, LEXIN [OVERLAPPING]
>> WELL, DAVIS IS FINDING WAY TO BE CONSISTENT.
>> DAVIS HAS BEEN CONSISTENT IN HISTORY OF 200.
>> THAT IS TOMMY. I LIKE THAT.
>> I THINK, LEXIN, TOUCHED UPON IT, LIKE THE SIGNAGE FOR COMMERCIAL BUSINESSES.
IF YOU'RE NOT OPEN 24 HOURS, YOU HAVE TO EXTINGUISH IT WITHIN AN HOUR AFTER YOU CLOSE OR AT A CERTAIN TIME BEFORE DUSK.
[01:45:01]
OBVIOUSLY, WE WANT A LOT OF BUY-IN FROM OUR BUSINESS COMMUNITY FOR THAT, AND SO THAT'S PART OF THAT PROCESS THAT TAKES A VERY LONG TIME IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH.I'M NOT DISCOURAGING THE COUNCIL TO PURSUE THAT.
I JUST WANT TO SET THE EXPECTATION AS WE CONTINUE TO MATURE IN OUR DARKSKY COMPLIANCE, IF YOU WILL, TO GET THE CERTIFICATION IS GOING TO BE A PRETTY HEAVY LIFT.
>> I JUST WANT TO STEP BACK THE TRAFFIC SIGNALS, BECAUSE WE SAID 3,000 KELVIN FOR ALL TOWN.
THE PUBLIC WORKS IS RECOMMENDING 4,000.
>> MAYBE THE STUDY CAN LOOK INTO THAT.
I WOULDN'T CARVE IT OUT, BUT IF IT'S LITERALLY GOING TO BREAK THE TECHNOLOGY, BUT I'M NOT SURE I ACCEPT THAT.
>> BUT THAT'LL BE INCLUDED IN THAT STUDY.
COOL. LEXIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH. APPRECIATE THAT.
FOR OUR NEXT ITEM, WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT SCOOTER REGULATIONS.
WE HAD A LOT OF FEEDBACK FROM RESIDENTS ON SCOOTER SAFETY THAT CAME UP IN OUR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING.
CHIEF COULON IS HERE TONIGHT TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THAT FOR US IN REGARD TO SAFETY WITH SCOOTERS.
>> THANK YOU, MAYOR. STAFF GOT DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL THAT MAYBE A MAJORITY OF YOU WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT AN ORDINANCE FOR SCOOTERS.
I WROTE ONE. IT'S CURRENTLY BEING REVIEWED LEGALLY.
WHILE THEY REVIEW IT LEGALLY, GET IT PUT IN THE RIGHT FORMAT AND ALL THAT, I WANTED TO GO THROUGH SOME OF THE MAJOR POINTS.
I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF DEBATE POINTS THAT WE'RE GOING TO WANT TO TALK ABOUT.
I TRIED TO EVEN ANTICIPATE THOSE.
IF THERE'S A BOLDED WORD IN THE SENTENCE OR A BOLDED PHRASE, I'M GOING TO STOP BECAUSE I THINK YOU WANT ME TO STOP RIGHT THERE AND YOU TAKE IT FROM THERE.
FIRST OFF, WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT MICROMOBILITY, AND JUST TO HIT WHY IT'S TITLED THAT INSTEAD OF SCOOTER, BECAUSE YOU HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS.
YOU HAVE HOVER BOARDS, YOU HAVE THE BOARD WITH ONE WHEEL.
THERE'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING NEXT CHRISTMAS, I'M SURE, AND SO WE WANT TO ANTICIPATE IF WE'RE GOING TO TAKE ACTION, LET'S DO IT ALL AT ONE TIME AND NOT TRY TO BREAK IT DOWN.
HERE'S BASICALLY THE DEFINITION THAT I HAD PUT IN THERE FOR MICROMOBILITY.
SMALL, LIGHTWEIGHT VEHICLES INCAPABLE OF GOING MORE THAN 28 MILES AN HOUR, DRIVEN BY ONE PERSON, AND IT COVERS ALL THESE THINGS.
PART OF THE ORDINANCE THAT'S BEING SUGGESTED IS WE DO HAVE A LITTLE BIT EXTRA BICYCLE.
A BICYCLE IS A DIFFERENT STORY.
BICYCLES HAVE A LOT MORE STATE REGULATIONS, BUT THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS WE CAN PUT IN A MICROMOBILITY CHAPTER THAT I THINK IT FITS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU DO WHEN YOU'RE AT A LAW AND YOU SAY CHILD IS YOU HAVE TO SAY WHAT THE CHILD IS, BECAUSE IN TEXAS, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT AGE BRACKETS FOR DIFFERENT LAWS AND IN DIFFERENT CODES.
THIS ONE CURRENTLY APPLIES TO LESS THAN 18 YEARS, SO 17 AND DOWN.
IS THAT THE DIRECTION YOU WANT TO MOVE OR DID YOU WANT TO LOWER IT, RAISE IT, ELIMINATE IT?
>> CAN WE GET BACK TO YOU WHEN WE SEE THE REST OF IT?
>> THE ONLY OTHER THING I WOULD CONSIDER IS USUALLY KIDS GET THEIR DRIVER'S LICENSE AT AGE 16.
I DON'T KNOW. WOULD YOU WANT TO LOWER TO 16? MAYBE KNOW WHAT OTHER MUNICIPALITIES DO.
>> ARE THEY? IT'S GOOD TO KNOW.
>> I THINK YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK.
IT MAKES SENSE THAT ONCE YOU HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE, THEN MAYBE THE RULES ARE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT.
>> I AGREE, AND I GUESS, ONE OF THE REASONS I WANTED TO WAIT IS I WANTED TO SEE HOW YOU HANDLED THE ON-SIDEWALK, OFF-SIDEWALK ISSUE, ON-STREET, OFF-STREET.
>> CHIEF, THIS ISN'T JUST ELECTRIC VEHICLES.
SKATEBOARD, OBVIOUSLY, IS HUMAN POWER, AND IT'S ALL WRAPPED UP IN THE SAME ORDINANCE?
>> YEAH. NOW, WE DON'T WANT TO GO TOO BROAD AND START DOING GOLF CARTS AND MOPEDS AND ALL THAT, BECAUSE THOSE ARE WAY SEPARATE ISSUES.
THIS IS JUST ALL THE LITTLE TOYS YOU GET ON AND YOU MIGHT BE IN THE STREET.
THIS ORDINANCE IS FOR YOU TO GO INTO THE STREET AS WELL AS TO THE SIDEWALK.
DON'T REALLY GET INTO THAT, BUT THAT'S WHERE ALL THESE ORDINANCES ARE.
THEY COVER BOTH. I CAN MOVE ON IF YOU WANT.
>> JUST ANOTHER QUESTION ON THE 18 YEARS VERSUS 16 YEARS.
WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS FOR PROPOSING 18 AS OPPOSED TO 16? WHAT LED TO THAT?
>> I JUST LOOKED AROUND TO SEE WHAT OTHER TOWNS ARE DOING, BECAUSE I JUST CHEATED OFF THEIR WORK AND I PUT A [OVERLAPPING]
[01:50:02]
>> A LITTLE BIT SHOULDER GIANTS.
>> THAT WOULD INCLUDE HIGH-SCHOOL AGE KIDS.
>> IT MIGHT BE EASIER. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S EASIER TO ENFORCE.
IF YOU SEE SOMEONE COMING OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL, YOU COULD NOT REALLY ASSUME THAT THEY'RE 18 BECAUSE THEY COULD BE OVER, BUT STILL IT'S MORE LIKELY THEY'D BE 18 AND UNDER, I GUESS.
THE LAST SLIDE HAS TO DO WITH A LITTLE BIT OF ENFORCEMENT.
IF THERE WAS AN ORDINANCE, THEN WE WOULD TALK ABOUT THE ROLL-OUT PLAN.
THEN WE WOULD TALK ABOUT TRAINING CLASSES, THEN WE WOULD TALK ABOUT HOW WE HANDLE IT.
GENERALLY, A TOWN THAT PASSES ONE OF THESE ORDINANCES WRITES VERY FEW TICKETS.
WE ARE NOT LOOKING TO WRITE A BUNCH OF 11-YEAR-OLDS TICKETS, BUT IT GIVES YOU SOME MEAT INTO TELLING PEOPLE, HEY, MAYBE YOU NEED TO HAVE A HELMET, OR HEY, DON'T LET US CATCH YOU AGAIN, THAT STUFF.
SOME OF THE OTHER TOWNS HAVE DONE STUFF LIKE THEY ONLY WRITE THE TICKET IF THE MICROMOBILITY DEVICE CAUSED AN ACCIDENT WITH A CAR AND IT'S THEIR FAULT.
IT WOULD BE EDUCATION-HEAVY ONCE WE HAD IT.
JUST RIGHT NOW, THIS WEEK, I TURNED ON MY STREET TO GO HOME, I LIVE IN FLOWER MOUND, AND THERE'S TWO ABOUT 13-YEAR-OLD GIRLS COMING RIGHT AT ME IN SCOOTERS.
ONE OF THEM HAD A HELMET, BUT IT WAS HANGING FROM THE HANDLEBARS.
I CAN'T SAY ANYTHING BECAUSE THAT'S NOT CURRENTLY AGAINST THE LAW.
IF THAT WAS THE LAW, AND AN OFFICER SAW THAT, HE WOULD STOP AND SAY, HEY, LADIES, YOU GOT TO PUT THE HELMET ON.
THAT'S THE WAY POLICE WOULD USE IT.
THE FIRST ONE HAS A BOLD IN IT.
SHALL NOT OPERATE ON A PUBLIC WAY OR PUBLIC PROPERTY WITH A SPEED LIMIT MORE THAN 35.
IF IT'S A 40-MILE AN HOUR STREET, YOU CAN'T OPERATE ON IT UNLESS YOU'RE JUST CROSSING IT.
YOU CAN CROSS IT, THAT'S REASONABLE.
COMPLETELY THAT NEEDS DIRECTION FROM YOU GUYS.
>> WELL, MORRIS RIGHT OUT HERE IS 35.
>> THAT'S WHAT I WAS JUST THINKING.
>> BUT THIS PART OF MORRIS RIGHT HERE WOULD BE.
>> YOU COULD RIDE YOUR SCOOTER ON MORRIS RIGHT HERE BEHIND US LEGALLY UNDER THIS.
>> AND NOT CROSS 1171 AND RIDE IT UP NORTH BECAUSE THAT TURNS TO 40 THERE.
>> WHAT I MEAN IS THAT IF IT'S AT 35, THEY CAN RIDE ON THE STREET.
IF IT'S 30, THEN IT WOULD BE ILLEGAL TO RIDE ON THE STREET OF MORRIS ROAD.
>> PUT THEM ON THE SIDEWALKS THERE.
>> YEAH, PUT THEM ON THE CYCLE, WHICH IS WHERE WE WANT THEM.
>> THAT'S BETTER BECAUSE WHAT IF PEDESTRIAN ACCIDENTS?
>> WE DON'T WANT THEM IN THE STREET.
>> THERE'S A LOT OF TRAFFIC ON THEM.
>> GETTING HIT BY A CAR WOULD BE CONSIDERABLY WORSE THEN.
>> THE ONLY THING I WOULD SAY IS MAYBE TAKE A LOOK AT TOWN, A LOT OF TIMES TO GET TO A PARK.
YOU MAY HAVE TO DRIVE IT ON 35 OR MORE.
BUT IF YOU WANT TO DO 30, WE CAN DO 30.
>> WELL, I'M TRYING TO THINK OF WHAT OTHER 35'S.
I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD BE ON MORRIS.
I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD RIDE THEIR ELECTRIC SCOOTER ON MORRIS RIGHT BEHIND US, WOULD BE INSANE.
ON THE SIDEWALK IS TOTALLY FINE.
WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT SIDEWALKS IN THIS.
YOU CAN RIDE ON THE SIDEWALK ON 2499, I PRESUME, UNDER THESE RULES.
>> YEAH, FOR BEING IN THE STREET.
>> OR PUBLIC WAYS, LIKE STUFF WE OWN.
>> WELL, MY THOUGHT WOULD BE I WANT THEM ON THE SIDEWALK.
UNLESS THEY'RE IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD STREET THAN GO NUTS.
>> I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF STREETS THAT ARE 35.
>> I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYONE THINKING IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO RIDE ON MORRIS.
BUT 35 IS FINE, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD RIDE ON MORRIS ANYWAY.
WELL, I GUESS IT WOULD BE LEGAL IF THEY DID THIS.
>> I THINK WE COULD PROBABLY CATCH SOMEBODY.
>> I'VE SEEN LATE AT NIGHT, SOME COLLEGE, I'VE SEEN IT.
>> WELL, COLLEGE IS SAFER THEN.
IF THESE ELECTRIC SCOOTERS AND SEGWAYS, THEY CAN'T GO FASTER THAN 30 MILES AN HOUR TYPICALLY?
>> ON THE 28. WHY WOULD WE GO TO A 35 MILE PER HOUR SPEED LIMIT?
>> BECAUSE OF THE CARS. MORE TRAFFIC
>> EXACTLY. BUT YOU WOULD WANT THEM TO ONLY BE ON ROADS THAT ARE 30 MILES AN HOUR OR LESS?
>> NO. IT'S THE SPEED OF THE CAR.
IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW FAST THE SCOOTER IS GOING.
IF THE CAR CAN GO 35, THE SCOOTER CAN GO 20, IT'S JUST A MORE IMPACTFUL COLLISION.
>> NO, I KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, BUT I'M JUST SAYING WHY WOULD WE WANT THEM TO BE ON THE STREET?
>> YOU DON'T WANT TO SLOW SCOOTER WITH CARS THAT ARE GOING FAST.
>> YOU WANT TO LOWER SPEED LIMIT.
GET THEM OFF OF THE STREET ONTO THE SIDEWALK.
>> EXACTLY, PUT THEM ONE ON THE SIDEWALK.
[01:55:01]
>> I WANT THEM ON THE SIDEWALK EXCEPT IN NEIGHBORHOOD STREETS.
I THINK THERE'S NO PROBLEM WITH SCOOTERS ON THE SIDEWALK AT ALL, THAT'S WHERE I THINK THEY SHOULD BE.
>> I'LL POINT OUT MOST OF ALL OF OUR RESIDENTIAL STREETS ARE 25. THAT'S AWESOME.
>> I THINK THERE'S ONE SMALL PORTION OF ONE THAT'S NOT. YOU GOT TO SAY IT.
>> THIRTY IS PRETTY MUCH THE CONSENSUS IF WE BRING THE ORDINANCE FORWARD TO LOOK AT IT WITH 30.
THEN IT SAYS UNLAWFUL FOR A CHILD TO OPERATE THE PUBLIC WAY OR PUBLIC PROPERTY WITHOUT WEARING A HELMET.
THIS WOULD BE THE HELMET LAW, AND IT WOULD SAY THAT A CHILD, WHATEVER WE DEFINE CHILD HAS TO WEAR A HELMET WHEN THEY'RE USING THIS ON OUR STREET OR OUR PUBLIC WAY.
>> I WOULD SAY ON THE STREET ONLY.
FOR SIDEWALKS, PARKING LOTS, AND YOUR DRIVEWAY, I WOULD NOT HAVE A HELMET.
>> I THINK IT SHOULD BE 100% HELMET BECAUSE WHEN YOU FALL, YOUR HEAD STILL COULD HIT SOMETHING.
IT COULD HIT A CURB IF YOU'RE ON THE SIDEWALK.
>> THAT'S TRUE. BUT IF THEY'RE ON THE SIDEWALK, WE CAN'T REGULATE.
>> BUT WE CAN IF WE HAVE THE ORDINANCE, THAT'S WHY WE'RE DOING THIS.
>> I THINK THAT'S EXTREME PERSONALLY.
>> THEN THEY'RE NEVER GOING TO WEAR A HELMET BECAUSE THEY'LL BE ON THE SIDEWALK, BECAUSE YOU'RE REGULATING THEM AND SAYING, YOU HAVE TO BE ON THE SIDEWALK IF IT'S 35 OR LESS, WE DON'T WANT YOU IN THE STREET, SO THEY WON'T BE WEARING A HELMET.
>> I AGREE WITH ANNA. I THINK WE EITHER OUGHT TO HAVE IT OR NOT HAVE IT, I THINK IT OUGHT TO BE REGARDLESS OF WHERE YOU ARE.
>> I WOULD SAY NOT HAVE IT THEN.
THEY'VE FOUND THAT WHEN THEY'VE HAD RIDE SHARE, BIKE SHARE PROGRAMS IN CITIES WITH HELMET LAWS THAT NO ONE USES IT.
>> BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARRY A HELMET AROUND WITHOUT SUPPLY.
>> I THINK THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD BE WEARING HELMETS. DON'T GET ME WRONG.
I THINK THEY SHOULD BE. YOU GUYS HAVE TO VOTE ON IT, BUT FOR US TO SAY THAT EVERYBODY HAS TO HAVE A HELMET.
>> WE'RE NOT SAYING EVERYBODY, WE'RE NOT SAYING ADULTS.
>> WELL, KIDS. ALL THE KIDS HAVE TO HAVE IT.
>> MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE LIMITED TO IN THE STREET ONLY.
IF FOR SIDEWALKS, PARKING LOTS, GO NUTS HAVE FUN. NO HELMET.
>> I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO APPLY BECAUSE WE'RE NOT LETTING THEM ON THE STREET.
>> I'VE GOTTEN FEEDBACK THAT WOULD SUPPORT NO HELMET ON THE SIDEWALK FROM BOTH PARENTS AND KIDS.
>> I'M HEARING ON DOES IT DISCOURAGE THE KID TO GO BIKING AND DO THINGS? MY NEIGHBORHOOD IS PRETTY HELMET FRIENDLY. EVERYBODY WEARS HELMETS.
>> I TREAT PEOPLE WITH TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURIES.
DON'T GET ME WRONG, I WANT PEOPLE TO WEAR HELMETS, I DO.
HOWEVER, I THINK THERE SHOULD BE SOME FLEXIBILITY IN THEIR RIGHTS TO DECIDE AS PARENTS.
WE SHOULD NOT LEGISLATE ADULTS WEAR HELMETS WHEN THEY'RE ON BIKES.
BUT IT'S OUR JOB AS PARENTS TO MAKE THOSE TOUGH DECISIONS THAT OUR KIDS MIGHT NOT LIKE.
I'M NOT SAYING WE OVERREACH AS A COUNCIL, BUT IF WE CAN ENACT A COMMON SENSE LAW THAT REQUIRE CHILDREN TO WEAR HELMETS WHEN THEY'RE ON A STREET OR A SIDEWALK, I THINK THAT'S A REASONABLE THING TO DO.
>> I AGREE. CASE IN POINT, YOUR EXAMPLE, THE HELMET WAS PRESENT ON THE HANDLE OF THE SCOOTER.
THE PARENT PRESUMABLY BOUGHT THE HELMET WITH INTENTIONS OF HAVING THEIR CHILD AND THE CHILD IS LIKE, I'M NOT WEARING THAT.
IF YOU HAD THE ABILITY TO SAY SOMETHING, YOUNG LADY, WE HAVE A HELMET LAW HERE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY, PLEASE PUT IT ON.
>> I REALLY DON'T WANT THE POLICE HASSLING KIDS ABOUT HELMETS.
JUST TO ME, I FIND THAT UNSAVORY.
I DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD USE OF YOUR TIME.
>> WE WOULD DO IT FOR SEAT BELTS?
>> I'M NOT A HUGE FAN OF THAT EITHER, BUT YOU DON'T PULL PEOPLE OVER FOR NO SEAT BELT.
YOU ONLY GIVE THEM A TICKET IN ADDITION TO WHAT THEY'VE BEEN PULLED OVER FOR?
>> PULL THEM FOR NO SEAT BELT?
>> SEAT BELTS SAVE LIVES, HELMETS SAVE BRAIN.
>> NOW, I DO KNOW. THAT'S WHY I SUPPORT OTHERWISE FOR EVERY MOMENT, THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME FLEXIBILITY ON WHAT THE PARENTS ENFORCE.
>> I THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT RIDING IT IN THAT IF IT'S ON THE STREET AND IT'S A CHILD, YOU HAVE TO WEAR A HELMET?
>> HOW ABOUT WHEN YOU'RE CROSSING STREET? YOU'RE CROSSING 35, YOU'RE ON YOUR SCOOTER, YOU'RE GOING TO PUT YOUR HELMET ON ACROSS THE ROAD AND THEN TAKE IT OFF AGAIN.
YOU'RE NOT EVEN GOING TO HAVE ONE, I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO WORK.
>> I DO AGREE THAT IF THEY'RE IN THE STREET, THEY HAVE TO HAVE HELMET ON, I DO AGREE WITH THAT. I'M FINE WITH THAT.
[02:00:02]
>> THERE'S STILL GOING TO BE PLENTY OF TIME FOR DEBATE WHEN WE BRING THE ORDINANCE.
>> PUT SOMETHING IN THERE AND THEN WE CAN DEBATE AS MANY TIMES AS YOU LIKE.
>> I'M GOING TO SHARE IT WITH THE PUBLIC AND I'LL GET SOME FEEDBACK.
>> THAT WAS PART OF WHAT WE WANTED TO DO TOO TO GET PUBLIC INPUT, AND WE HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE ON THAT BECAUSE WE ONLY HAVE A DRAFT ORDINANCE SO FAR THAT WE HAVEN'T RELEASED.
>> WE'RE JUST WAITING FOR OUR LEGAL TO REVIEW.
I PULLED ALL THIS OUT OF THE ORDINANCE TO SEE A LOT OF STUFF IN THERE THAT'S JUST LIKE LEGAL STUFF.
>> LEGAL STUFF. ON THE ORDINANCE, SINCE THERE'S THREE PEOPLE THAT ARE SUPPORTIVE OF IT ONLY BEING ON THE STREET, BUT OKAY ON THE SIDEWALK, THEN THAT'S WHAT THE ORDINANCE WOULD SAY WHEN YOU COME FORWARD WITH THAT.
THEN YOU ALL CAN VOTE ON WHETHER YOU WANT THAT OR NOT.
>> I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO KNOW BEFORE WE GO FORWARD, WHAT OTHER MUNICIPALITIES SPECIFICALLY STATE REGARDING HELMETS.
>> HIGHLAND VILLAGE HAS A GOOD ONE THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT.
THAT'S ONE RIGHT NEXT TO US, WE SHARE THE BORDER.
THERE IS A PRETTY RESTRICTIVE MICROMOBILITY ORDINANCE.
WHEN YOU READ THAT, I THINK YOU'LL SEE SOME OF THE THINGS WE LEFT OUT TO MAKE IT A LITTLE LESS RESTRICTIVE FOR INSTANCE.
YOU CAN'T OPERATE IT ON A STREET MORE THAN 30 MILES AN HOUR.
I WROTE 35 JUST BECAUSE I THINK I LOOKED AT PLANO, FRISCO, STAFF SENT ME A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER ONES SO I GOT OVERWHELMED WITH THEM, AND THEY'RE ALL JUMBLED IN MY HEAD RIGHT NOW, BUT HIGHLAND VILLAGE WROTE ONE OF THE MOST RECENT THAT THEY JUST ENACTED LAST YEAR.
>> I'LL LOOK UP TO SEE WHAT LEWISVILLE DOES TOO, IF ANYTHING.
>> SPEAKING OF 35 MILE VERSUS 30 MILES AN HOUR, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS SIDEWALK VERSUS STREET, REMIND ME OF CANNON FALLS DRIVE.
IT'S A 35 MILE AN HOUR SPEED LIMIT, BUT ALSO HAS A BIKE LANE.
DOES THIS CONTEMPLATE, COULD YOU RIDE IT IN A BIKE LANE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S 35 MILES AN HOUR? BECAUSE I THINK THAT MIGHT BE AN ACCEPTABLE USE, AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT COULD GET CARVED OUT.
>> I HAVEN'T SEEN THAT BEFORE, BUT WE CAN RIDE WHATEVER WE WANT AND TRY TO PASS IT THROUGH LEGAL.
THAT WOULD MEAN THEY WOULD HAVE A HELMET BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO SAY, HERE IN THE STREET, YOU GOT TO HAVE A HELMET.
>> THIS OTHER ONE IT'S UNLAWFUL FOR A PARENT TO ALLOW OPERATION IN VIOLATION OF ORDINANCE.
THIS IS LIKE YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF EIGHT-YEAR-OLDS OUT THERE, WE'RE NOT WRITING EIGHT-YEAR-OLDS TICKETS.
BUT IF THE PARENTS ARE JUST STANDING THERE LETTING IT HAPPEN, I GUESS THE PARENT NEEDS A TICKET.
WE WOULD WRITE THE PARENT THE TICKET, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S REALLY THAT BIG OF A DEBATE POINT UNLESS WANT TO STOP.
>> WELL, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE IN THEIR FRONT YARD AND A 35 MILE AN HOUR BECAUSE IT'S 25 IN A NEIGHBORHOOD, SO IT WOULDN'T APPLY.
>> THEY COULD BE STANDING THERE ON THE WAY TO THE PARK AND LETTING THEIR KIDS ON MORRIS.
>> THEIR KIDS COULD BE IN THE STREET WITHOUT A HELMET.
>> BUT THEY'RE GOING TO BE MOVING.
ARE THE PARENTS GOING TO BE CHASING THEM? I JUST DON'T SEE A SCENARIO WHERE IT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO BE EASY TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE WHEN YOU PASS AN ORDINANCE, ESPECIALLY WITH CHILDREN, THE EASE OF UNDERSTANDING IS CRITICAL.
IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO ENFORCE IT AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE THEM MORE HELMETS, HONESTLY, WHAT'S EVEN THE POINT?
>> WELL, I DO THINK I LIKE WHAT THE CHIEF WAS SAYING EARLIER.
THIS IS AT LEAST INITIALLY A TOOL TO EDUCATE.
THIS GIVES THEM THE REASON TO STOP AND TALK TO THE PARENTS THAT, HEY, THEY SHOULDN'T BE DOING THIS TO EDUCATE THE PARENTS.
>> WHEN IT COMES TO BEHAVIORAL CHANGE, EDUCATION IS ONE VERY SMALL PART OF THAT.
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES, THAT'S WHAT CHANGES BEHAVIORS.
IF IT'S JUST HERE'S THIS SIGN THAT SAYS IT'S NICE TO DO THIS, IT'S NICE TO DO THAT, THAT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANY BEHAVIORS.
>> IT'S GOOD THAT WE HAVE THIS WRITTEN IN HERE SO THEN THEY CAN WRITE THEM A TICKET?
>> BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE AN EFFECTIVE USE OF TIME.
I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE THIS IS THE REASON WHY THIS IS THE CLEAR EXPECTATION, THIS IS THE CLEAR CONSEQUENCE OR IT'S NEVER GOING TO WORK.
WE JUST WASTED EVERYONE'S TIME.
JUST SAYING. I'D SAY, MAYBE DON'T DO IT AT ALL IF IT CAN'T BE DONE THE RIGHT WAY.
>> MAYBE, BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ENFORCEABLE.
IT'S GOING TO BE VERY CONFUSING AS TO WHEN IT DOES AND DOESN'T APPLY.
AN EIGHT-YEAR-OLD, A 10-YEAR-OLD CHILD WOULD BE LIKE IS THIS A 30 MILE PER HOUR STREET? AM I SUPPOSED TO BE IN THE STREET? IT SAYS 35 HERE, BUT SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT WAS THAT RULE? WAS IT 35? IT'S GOING TO BE VERY CONFUSING.
I JUST THINK WE NEED TO MAKE IT VERY EASY TO UNDERSTAND OR NOTHING, BUT I REALLY WANT THE PUBLIC'S INPUT.
>> I DON'T HAVE KIDS IN THIS CATEGORY, BUT I AM A DRIVER AND I'M FRUSTRATED AND I DON'T WANT TO HIT A KID THAT COMES OUT OF NOWHERE AND I CAN'T AVOID IT.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHOSE FAULT IT IS, THE KID GETS HIT.
AT THAT POINT, I DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN.
[02:05:01]
>> WE'RE GETTING FEEDBACK ON THAT, BUT THAT'S FRUSTRATING FOR SOME.
>> ORDINANCE WOULD SOLVE THAT PROBLEM.
WHAT IN THIS ORDINANCE WOULD KEEP A KID FROM SCREAMING THROUGH A STOP SIGN AND NOT STOPPING? THERE'S NOT REALLY ANYTHING.
BUT WHAT THIS DOES IS IT AT LEAST ALLOWS THE ACCOUNTABILITY TO BE PLACED ON THE PARENTS.
>> BUT ACCOUNTABILITY FOR WHAT? IN WHAT SITUATION AND HOW OFTEN WILL IT ACTUALLY BE OBSERVED AND ENFORCED?
>> THEN WHAT'S THE POINT OF IT? IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY.
I BROUGHT IT UP AND I REALLY PRESSED FOR IT BECAUSE I SAW ON SOCIAL MEDIA SO MANY CONCERNED PARENTS STATING MULTIPLE NEAR MISSES.
FOR ME, ESPECIALLY COMING FROM MY PROFESSION, A NEAR MISS IS A RED FLAG.
IT'S TIME TO ACT BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT AN ACTUAL INCIDENT TO HAPPEN, NOBODY WANTS THAT. IT'S BEEN MULTIPLE.
>> I AGREE, BUT I THOUGHT THAT THIS GIVES THEM AN END TO TALK TO THE CHILDREN AND EDUCATE THEM.
THAT'S WHAT ACTUALLY PD WAS ASKING FOR.
>> I THINK IT'S THE SMALLEST DOING SOMETHING WE COULD POSSIBLY DO.
I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S ENOUGH, AND I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE UNDERSTANDABLE OR THE CONSEQUENCES WILL BE THERE.
I HAVE VERY MIXED FEELINGS ABOUT THE WHOLE THING.
IF YOU CAN'T SAY WEAR A HELMET, AND IT'S CLEAR EXPECTATION, IT'S GOING TO BE TOO CONFUSING, NO ONE'S GOING TO DO IT, SO WHAT'S THE POINT?
>> I CAN STOP, AND JUST SCRAP THE WHOLE IDEA?
I WOULD LIKE THE PUBLIC INPUT BECAUSE THIS IS HOW THIS ALL GOT STARTED.
I OBSERVED PEOPLE REPORTING MULTIPLE NEAR MISSES, AND THAT DOESN'T SET WELL WITH ME.
I DON'T WANT US TO WAIT UNTIL SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS, THAT'S TOO LATE.
THAT'S WHY I REALLY PRESSED FOR THIS, BUT I DON'T THINK THIS SOLUTION OF WEAR IT ON THE STREET, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO WEAR IT ON THE SIDEWALK, IT'S WAY TOO CONFUSING FOR PEOPLE.
THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO WEIGH IN AND SAY, YES, IT'S ENOUGH, NO, IT'S NOT.
OTHERWISE, I DON'T SEE THE POINT, IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK.
>> TO ADDRESS THOSE SPECIFIC CONCERNS, WHICH ARE VALID.
I WANT THE KIDS OFF OF THE STREET AND ON THE SIDEWALK, WHERE IT'S SAFER.
MAKING THEM WEAR HELMETS ALL THE TIME ISN'T GOING TO AFFECT THAT, BUT IF THEY SAY IF YOU'RE ON THE STREET, YOU BETTER HAVE YOUR HELMET ON AND THEN WE ENFORCE THAT, THEN THAT'LL GET THEM OFF THE STREETS.
WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THEY'RE EITHER STOP RIDING OR THEY WILL RIDE WHERE THEY CAN.
>> IF YOU WANT THEM OFF THE STREET, WHY DOESN'T THE ORDINANCE JUST SAY NO SCOOTERS ON THE STREET?
>> BECAUSE NEIGHBORHOOD STREETS, I DON'T THINK ARE NECESSARY TO APPLY.
WHEN THEY GO TEARING UP AND DOWN THE STREET IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE AND THERE'S NO CARS AROUND, I DON'T REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
IT DOES MATTER, THE VOLUME OF TRAFFIC ON THE STREET.
BLOWING THROUGH STOP SIGNS AND ALMOST GETTING HIT BY CARS, CUTTING IN FRONT OF CARS.
NOTHING AND WE'VE SEEN IN THIS ORDINANCE WOULD ADDRESS ANY OF THOSE CONCERNS.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DO EXACTLY TO GET KIDS TO NOT ALREADY SHENANIGANS ON THEIR SCOOTERS.
>> THAT'S ALREADY ILLEGAL, PULLING OUT IN FRONT OF.
>> IT IS IF YOU'RE ON A BICYCLE.
>> YEAH. THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO EDUCATE A 16-YEAR-OLD ON ALL OF THAT? HAVING A 10-YEAR-OLD KNOW A YIELD SIGN IT AROUND ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, IT'S PROBABLY NOT DOABLE TO ANY EXTENT THAT WOULD MAKE IT MATTER.
WE CAN GO THROUGH SOME OF THE OTHER STUFF HERE TO TALK ABOUT AND MAYBE THERE'S SOME MORE DEBATE WE CAN HAVE BECAUSE MAYBE SOME OF IT WILL CLEAR UP AS WE GO.
>> I DID WANT TO MENTION ON THE LESS THAN EIGHT-YEAR LINE OF SIGHT OF A PARENT, SHOULD IT BE A SOMETHING A GUARDIAN?
>> LEGAL LEASE WILL TAKE CARE OF ALL THAT JUST FOR THE SIMPLE FACT.
THIS ONE I ACTUALLY WROTE FOR THE MAYOR PRO TEM BECAUSE SHE HAD INTIMATED AT ONE POINT THAT SHE DIDN'T THINK LESS THAN 8-YEARS-OLD SHOULD OPERATE ANY OF THESE THINGS ON THE ROADWAY.
THIS IS THE SOLUTION I CAME UP WITH.
WHAT I REALLY JOG MY MEMORY ON THIS IS THESE THINGS.
IF WE WROTE THAT AN EIGHT-YEAR-OLD CANNOT OPERATE MICROMOBILITY ON THE STREET, WE'RE SAYING YOU CANNOT DRIVE YOUR BARBIE CAR ON THE STREET OR THE SIDEWALK.
>> OR THE NEIGHBORHOOD STREET, IS 25 MILES HOUR, WHAT DO YOU THINK? DEPUTY MAYOR PRO TEM?
>> I DON'T THINK THAT THOSE TYPES OF VEHICLES SHOULD BE ON OUR PUBLIC STREETS.
BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE RESTRICTING A SEVEN-YEAR-OLD FROM RIDING A SKATEBOARD.
>> I DISAGREE BECAUSE A LOT OF OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE KROGER AT.
>> I MEAN, WE'D BE BREAKING THE LAW EVERY WEEK.
[02:10:02]
>> THAT'S WHY I WROTE IT THIS WAY SO THAT YOU COULD HAVE YOUR BARBIE CAR WITH YOUR FOUR-YEAR-OLDS IN IT, BUT IF THE PARENTS ARE AT LEAST WATCHING IT, THAT'S A BIT OF SOMETHING.
>> PARENTS WATCHING, WHILE THEY'VE GOT THEY'RE LIKE YEAH, I'M WATCHING YOU ON THEIR PHONES.
IT JUST COMES DOWN TO THE FACT THAT I DON'T WANT TO BE A NANNY STATE.
I REALLY DON'T. COME ON, PARENTS AND GUARDIANS.
TEACH YOUR KIDS THE RIGHT WAY, KEEP THEM OFF THE STREETS ON THEIR SCOOTERS.
THEN ALSO, THINK ABOUT FROM THE DRIVER'S PERSPECTIVE.
DO YOU THINK WHEN OUR KIDS ARE NEW DRIVERS, THEY'RE 16-YEARS-OLD.
THEY JUST GOT DRIVING PRIVILEGES, THEIR PARENTS YOU CAN DRIVE TO AND FROM SCHOOL, AND THEN SOME SCOOTER PULLS OUT.
HOW TRAUMATIC DO YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE FOR THE DRIVER, TOO? WE'RE NOT JUST PROTECTING THE KIDS, WE'RE PROTECTING NEW YOUNGER DRIVERS.
I AM CONFLICTED ABOUT IT, I DON'T WANT TO BE A NANNY STATE, BUT I THINK MAKING IT TOO COMPLICATED IS NOT GOING TO WORK EITHER.
IT'S THIS AND THIS, BUT NOT THAT.
THAT WILL NEVER WORK, IT NEEDS TO BE VERY SIMPLE.
>> I'M HEARING JUST ELIMINATE THAT PART AND DROP THE UNDER EIGHT?
>> I DON'T KNOW. YOU GUYS HAVE UNDER EIGHTS, YOU HAVE UNDER EIGHTS.
YOU HAVE GRANDKIDS UNDER EIGHT, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?
>>I NEVER LET MY KIDS ON THE STREET, BUT THAT'S ME.
>> BUT WE'RE RIDING WITH THEM.
>> I USED TO LIVE IN A KROGER SEC AND IT WAS ALL OVER THE STREET BECAUSE THERE WAS ONE CAR EVERY HOUR THAT WOULD COME BY.
>> YOUR KROGER SEC WOULD BE A GREAT PLACE BUT NOT FOR SKATEBOARD.
>> HOW DO YOU MAKE ALLOWANCE FOR THOSE KIND OF DECISIONS WHICH DO SEEM MORE APPROPRIATE, BUT THEN IT JUST MAKES IT MORE COMPLICATED WHEN IT'S NOT THAT SMALL SITUATION THAT'S MORE REALISTIC AND NOT AS DANGEROUS.
>> DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS FOURTH BULLET, UNLAWFUL? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING?
>> I LIKE THE INTENT OF IT BECAUSE WHO WOULD DO THAT? BUT PEOPLE DO DO THAT? THEY LET THEIR KIDS DO A LOT OF BAD STUFF THAT IS DANGEROUS.
>> THINGS I WOULD NEVER LET MY KIDS.
MOST PEOPLE I KNOW WOULD NEVER LET THE KIDS HAVE BUT IT HAPPEN. OTHERS DO.
WE CAN'T LEGISLATE GOOD PARENTS.
[OVERLAPPING] THIS IS WHERE I THINK THE PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT WOULD BE REALLY IMPORTANT.
BUT LET'S HEAR WHAT PEOPLE WANT TO.
>> WORDS ON PAPER AREN'T GOING TO CHANGE.
IF YOUR STREETS BUSY AND YOUR SIX-YEAR-OLDS OUT THERE, THAT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO CHANGE BECAUSE WE PUT SOME WORDS ON A PIECE OF PAPER.
I MEAN, I'M SURE THE PUBLIC WILL COME IN AND HAVE 50 DIFFERENT WAYS THEY CAN SLICE AND DICE THIS THING, BUT ANN'S POINT IS STILL VALID THAT IT SHOULD BE ONE OR TWO LINES, AND THAT'S IT.
>> WHAT IS OUR OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE SOME PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT? HOW WOULD WE BEST DO THAT? WOULD IT BE SURVEY, WOULD IT BE THE FLOMO CONVO?
>> WE COULD DO IT A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WAYS AND WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE SURVEY ASPECT OF IT.
A BIG THING IS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT DOING A SURVEY ON THIS.
WHAT'S HELPFUL FOR COMING BACK TONIGHT AND GETTING YOUR FEEDBACK ON IT IS WHAT'S ON THAT SURVEY.
LISTENING TO THE DISCUSSION TONIGHT, I THINK HELMETS ARE A REALLY GOOD QUESTION TO HAVE ON THAT SURVEY.
LESS THAN 8-YEARS-OLD, DO WE NOT WANT TO LET THEM OPERATE IT? WE CAN ALSO PUT SOME DIFFERENT QUESTIONS IN THERE ABOUT STREET FOR SIDEWALKS.
BUT THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TONIGHT TO UNDERSTAND AS YOU'RE BUILDING THIS ORDINANCE, WHAT IS OUT THERE THAT YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ON OR YOU STILL WANT FEEDBACK ON? YES, WE COULD DO A SURVEY, WE COULD DO A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
>> IF YOU DID A SURVEY, HOW WOULD THAT BE DISTRIBUTED BESIDES ON OUR WEBSITE?
>> IT WOULD BE AN UNSCIENTIFIC SURVEY.
YOU HAVE TO KEEP THAT IN MIND, WE WANT TO HAVE THE SCIENTIFIC SAMPLING, AND ALL THAT TO MEAN IS YOU'RE 100% CORRECT MAYOR.
IT WOULD BE US PUTTING IT OUT, PROBABLY GOING OUT IN OUR SOCIAL MEDIA WEBSITES, PUSHING PEOPLE TO TAKE THE SURVEY.
WE SAY UNSCIENTIFIC, MEANING THAT YOU ARE PROBABLY GOING TO GET PEOPLE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO ARE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT SCOOTERS.
YOU MIGHT HAVE SOME DIFFERENCES IN THE NUMBERS, I DON'T THINK YOU WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT AND MAKE A DETERMINATION OFF OF IT BECAUSE IT'S UNSCIENTIFIC.
HOWEVER, IT WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH SOME FEEDBACK AND IT MAY REALLY SHOW YOU WHERE THE TOWN IS LEANING.
>> DO YOU THINK YOU COULD TIME IT SO IT COULD BE INCLUDED IN THE WATER BILL
[02:15:01]
INSERT SO THAT YOU CAN HAVE A TWO PARAGRAPH ARTICLE ABOUT WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, WHAT THE INTENTION COULD BE IN SOLVING IT, AND THEN THE LINK TO THE SURVEY, SO EVERY HOUSEHOLD WILL GET IT?>> WE CAN, BUT THEN THAT PUSHES THIS COMING BACK TO YOU OUT FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS.
>> WE COULD. I WOULD HAVE TO GET WITH COMMUNICATIONS TO GET WITH THE TIMING OF IT.
BUT WE MAY BE TALKING AT THIS POINT FOR THE DECEMBER BILLS AND TO SEE WHAT ON THE END OF THE NOVEMBER BILLS WE COULD GET ON.
WE COULD PROVIDE YOU THAT OUTLOOK.
I WAS JUST WARNING YOU THAT WOULD PUSH US BACK A COUPLE OF MONTHS.
>> JP, CAN WE GET SOME DATA ON THE PERSON ANSWERING THE SURVEY, IS THIS A USER OF ONE OF THESE? IS IT APPARENT OF A USER OF ONE OF THESE? IS IT SOMEONE ELSE WHO ISN'T A USER AT ALL BECAUSE THERE'S THREE DIFFERENT TAKES ON THIS.
I CAN IMAGINE WE'LL GET A LOT OF RESPONSES FROM SOMEBODY WHO GOT CUT OFF IN A PARKING LOT WHO IS LIKE HELMET LAW, GET THEM OFF THE ROAD.
BUT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE OUTCOME THAT WE WANT.
IF EVERYBODY WHO'S RIGHT AROUND THESE THINGS SAYS, ALL WEAR A HELMET, NO PROBLEM.
THEN THAT CHANGES MY PERSPECTIVE A LITTLE BIT.
>> JUST TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS.
THAT'S ACTUALLY VERY GOOD INSIGHT TO HAVE BECAUSE WHAT WE WOULD DO IS WE WOULD MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE SOME OF THOSE DEMOGRAPHIC TYPE QUESTIONS.
WE MIGHT INCLUDE AGE, WE MIGHT INCLUDE YES, ARE YOU A RIDER OF, WHAT WOULD BE IN THIS MICROMOBILITY DEVICE? DO YOU HAVE CHILDREN THAT RIDE? WE CAN WRITE SOME OF THOSE SETTING QUESTIONS AND THEN WE CAN SEE WHERE THE DATA GOES BASED ON THOSE QUESTIONS.
I WILL ALSO TELL YOU WE'LL PROBABLY DO THIS THROUGH POCO.
HOW WE HAVE DONE IT IS WE HAVE DONE IT TO WHERE IT'S OPTIONAL FOR PEOPLE TO SIGN UP, MEANING THAT WE DON'T FORCE PEOPLE TO GIVE US THEIR DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION OR WHERE THEY LIVE, WE COULD.
>> DIDN'T WE HAVE ZONES BEFORE FOR SOME OF THE OTHER SURVEYS LIKE I LIVE IN? [OVERLAPPING] OR HOW ABOUT I LIVE IN A ZONE WHERE MY STREETS ARE 35 MILES AN HOUR, 25, JUST SOMETHING SO WE KNOW WHAT THE EXPOSURE LEVEL IS.
>> I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING AND YOU ARE 100% CORRECT, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE DONE IN THE PAST, IS INCLUDED ZONES.
THE THOUGHT PROCESS ON THIS FOR EVERYBODY IS WE DON'T WANT ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO GO TAKE A SURVEY TO HAVE TO SIGN UP FOR SOMETHING OR GIVE US INFORMATION THAT THEY DON'T REALLY WANT TO GIVE US.
BUT THAT IS SOMETHING VERY SIMPLE, WE CAN ADD INTO ONE OF THOSE QUALIFYING QUESTIONS THAT SAY, CAN YOU SELECT WHICH AREA OF TOWN YOU LIVE IN OR DO YOU LIVE IN TOWN?
>> I WOULD WANT TO KNOW IF IT'S IN OR OUT.
>> WE CAN CONTINUE SO WE CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT WE NEED TO PUT IN THE SURVEY.
THE NEXT ONE IS JUST WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT GAS-POWERED MICROMOBILITY.
I HAVEN'T REALLY SEEN THAT YET, BUT SOMEBODY IS GOING TO MAKE ONE, WHY WOULDN'T YOU? THAT ONE OF THE GENERAL PROVISIONS, I DIDN'T HAVE ANY CAREFUL WAY TO CONSTRUCT IT EXCEPT YES OR NO, AND THAT'S THE PARKING LOTS.
MY THOUGHT, WELL, WHAT IF YOU'RE JUST GOING STRAIGHT TO THE FRONT DOOR? WHAT IF YOU'RE JUST CROSSING TO GET ONTO THE SIDEWALK IN THE PARKING LOT? IS THERE'S JUST TOO MANY VARIABLES TO TRY TO EVEN WORRY ABOUT.
PARKING LOTS IS WHERE A LOT OF THE SCOOTER STUFF HAPPENS.
IF THE PARKING LOT IS EMPTY, I THINK WE'RE ALL LIKE, WELL, THAT'S COOL.
I MEAN, IT'S EMPTY. IF IT'S KROGER IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY, IT'S A DIFFERENT STORY.
I PERSONALLY COULDN'T COME UP WITH ANY THING OTHER THAN JUST IT'S EITHER YES OR NO.
WE CAN PUT THAT IN THE SURVEY TOO, WHETHER IT'S YES OR NO.
AM I HEARING THAT. ON THE GAS POWER?
>> NO I DIDN'T DO A BULLET POINT ON THE JUST PARKING LOTS.
JUST BECAUSE I WANTED TO EXPLAIN MYSELF THAT WE HAD TALKED ABOUT SOME REGULATION IN PARKING LOTS, BUT I THOUGHT ABOUT IT FOREVER.
I LOOKED AROUND AND I COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING EXCEPT IF IT'S A YES OR NO AND MOST ORDINANCES DON'T EVEN ADDRESS IT.
>> WELL, IF THAT'S WHERE MOST INCIDENTS OCCUR, I THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
>> THAT'S STILL A SPEED LIMIT LESS THAN 30 MILES AN HOUR.
>> I'LL SAY WE HAVEN'T BEEN TRACKING INCIDENTS.
I'LL JUST SAY IT SEEMS LIKE YOU SEE A LOT OF IT IN TOWN IN A PARKING LOT.
MOST OF THE TIME IT'S BEEN A CLOSE CALL FOR ME, IT'S BEEN IN A PARKING LOT.
THAT'S JUST PERSONAL. WE CAN PUT THAT IN THERE AND JUST SEE WHAT EVERYBODY SAYS.
>> I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT PEOPLE SAY AT LEAST.
WHEN YOU WRITE AN ORDINANCE, YOU INCLUDE WHAT'S ALREADY INCLUDED IN THE STATE LAW.
[02:20:01]
THIS IS IN THE STATE LAW, IT'S A BASIC SUMMARY.IT'S MOSTLY JUST DEALING WITH BICYCLES, AND IT JUST TALKS ABOUT AND YOU SEE HOW BICYCLES START DIFFERENTIATING HERE.
YOU CAN'T LOAD WITH A BUNCH OF PEOPLE THERE'S NO SEATS FOR.
YOU HAVE TO RIDE TO THE RIGHT AS NEAR AS POSSIBLE.
WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR WITH THOSE.
THEY MAY RIDE TWO ABREAST, AND THEN THEY HAVE SOME EQUIPMENT.
IF AT NIGHT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LAMP ON THE FRONT AND THE REFLECTOR IN THE BACK.
ALL THAT STUFF IS ALREADY TAKEN CARE OF IN THE TRANSPORTATION CODE, IT'S ALREADY IN LAW.
THEY DO ADDRESS A LITTLE BIT OF BICYCLE COASTER SLED.
ROLLER SKATES OR TOY VEHICLE MAY NOT ATTACH.
ALL THAT MEANS IS THE PERSON ON THE DEVICE CAN'T GRAB THE BACK OF THE CAR AND DRIVE OFF.
THAT'S ALREADY STATE LAW THAT YOU CAN'T DO THAT, SO WE DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT.
>> WE HAD A DEATH IN FLOWER MOUND SEVERAL YEARS AGO AND IT WAS A SKATEBOARD, AND IT WAS OVER BY GARDEN RIDGE ELEMENTARY.
DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THAT? THEY WERE HITCHING ONTO THE BUMPER AND WERE KILLED.
>> IT'S ALREADY AGAINST THE LAW.
>> WHEN YOU'RE WRITING AN ORDINANCE, YOU JUST THROW THAT IN THERE SO THAT YOU PUT IT ALL. [OVERLAPPING]
>> HERE'S SOME MORE UNLAWFUL TO'S.
OPERATE ON A PUBLIC WAY OR PROPERTY IN EXCESS OF 28, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S VERY ALL THAT DEBATABLE UNLESS YOU WANT TO LOWER IT.
OPERATE ON A PUBLIC WAY OR PUBLIC PROPERTY UNLESS THE BICYCLE IS OUTFITTED LIKE THAT TRANSPORTATION CODE SAID WITH THE REFLECTORS IN THE SEAT.
IT SAYS, USE A HANDHELD ELECTRONIC DEVICE WHILE OPERATING ON A PUBLIC WAY OR PROPERTY.
>> THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO EXCEED SPEED LIMITS.
IF THEY'RE ON A STREET, IT'S A SCOOTER THAT CAN GO 28 MILES AN HOUR, BUT THE SPEED LIMIT IS 25.
BUT WHAT ABOUT AN ACTIVE SCHOOL ZONE WHERE THE SPEED LIMIT IS 20, AND VEHICLES CAN'T GO MORE THAN 20, SO THE SCOOTER SHOULDN'T EITHER.
>> I'M GOING TO SAY I WANT TO ASK LEGAL WHEN THEY'RE HERE.
>> IF THEY'RE ON THE STREET, ARE THEY NOT SUBJECT TO THE SPEED LIMITS THAT AUTOMOBILES WOULD BE? THEY'RE NOT.
>> LIKE GOLF CARTS DOWN, THE STATE DOESN'T REGULATE, THE FEDS DON'T REGULATE.
THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT RULES DEPENDING ON WHAT THE DEVICE IS, AND I THINK WE WOULD WANT LEGAL COUNSEL TO REALLY WEIGH IN ON WHETHER THEY HAVE TO OBEY THAT?
>> THEY WOULD BE WRITING ME TICKETS ALL THE TIME ON MY BIKE, BECAUSE I EXCEED THE LIMIT.
>> THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFICULTY IN THIS BECAUSE A SKATEBOARD DOESN'T HAVE A SPEEDOMETER.
[BACKGROUND] A SCOOTER DON'T HAVE A SPEEDOMETER.
>> THEN KNOWING THAT THEY'RE EVEN VIOLATING, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PROVE THAT IN COURT.
>> IS THERE ANOTHER PROVISION THAT COULD ENCOMPASS EGREGIOUSLY DANGEROUS OPERATION OF SUCH AND SUCH, AND THIS AND THAT SO THAT THE OFFICER WOULD HAVE DISCRETION AND SAY, MY GOSH, YOU WERE RIDING LIKE A MANIAC, AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
>> I BET WE COULD PUT SOMETHING IN THERE LIKE THAT.
BUT I WOULD DEFER TO ILLEGAL, I'LL ASK HIM WHAT YOU WOULD PUT IN THERE.
>> WELL, I KNOW IT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE WHEN YOU GIVE DISCRETION BECAUSE IT'S HARDER, THERE ARE NO GUIDELINES, OR MAYBE THERE WOULD BE, I DON'T KNOW.
BUT IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THERE COULD BE EGREGIOUSLY DANGEROUS BEHAVIOR, AND I FEEL LIKE SOMEONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SAY SOMETHING, EVEN IF YOU DON'T WRITE THEM A TICKET.
>> THAT'S THE MOST SENSIBLE PROPOSAL I'VE HEARD.
MORE THAN ANYTHING WE'VE SEEN IS IF YOU'RE ACTING OPERATING IT RECKLESSLY OR YOU'RE DRUNK OR YOU'RE ON YOUR PHONE, THAT'S PROBABLY WHEN THE POLICE SHOULD STEP IN AND STRAIGHTEN SOMEBODY OUT.
>> WHEN POLICE STOP SOMEBODY, THEY'RE USING POLICE POWER.
IF WE'RE GOING TO STOP SOMEONE, IT'S A TEMPORARY DETENTION.
WE NEED TO HAVE A LEGAL MEANS.
JUST TELLING US TO GO USE COMMON SENSE, ISN'T GOING TO WORK.
IF YOU WANT US TO STOP THOSE PEOPLE, WE HAVE TO HAVE THE AUTHORIZATION TO DO SO.
>> IS RECKLESS, CAN THAT BE DEFINED LEGALLY TO GIVE THE POLICE THE AUTHORITY TO THEN STOP SOMEONE IF THEY'RE ACTING IN A RECKLESS.
>> THERE'S PLENTY OF EXAMPLES FOR ME TO PUT IN THERE AND HAVE LEGAL REVIEW SO I DON'T HAVE TO CREATE ANYTHING NEW, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING.
>> AND THEN OPERATE WITH A PASSENGER ON BOARD THESE DEVICES.
WE PRETTY MUCH ALREADY STATED, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE-PERSON UNITS.
[02:25:04]
BUT ALL THE TIME YOU SEE SCOOTERS WITH TWO PEOPLE ON IT.>> IT DOESN'T REALLY BOTHER ME.
>> IT DOES BOTHER ME. ARE THERE TWO PERSON SCOOTERS? I THOUGHT THERE WERE TWO-PERSON SCOOTERS.
>> I SEE KIDS GOING FROM MARCUS TO SONIC.
ONE'S ON THE OTHER HOLDING ON TO THE BACK AND IT DIDN'T REALLY BOTHER ME THAT, I GUESS.
IT SEEMS LIKE I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED THAT RULE.
>> ONE SUGGESTION IS, WE COULD PUT OPERATE WITH MORE PEOPLE THAN THE DEVICE IN TENS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
PROBABLY THERE WILL BE A TWO PASSENGERS.
>> FINALLY. THEN OPERATE DURING INCLEMENT WEATHER UNDER CONDITIONS THAT IMPAIR? I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S PRETTY SIMPLE.
IN A CROSSWALK EXCEPT TO WALK IT ACROSS JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN HAVE ALL THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE TRYING TO WALK THROUGH THESE LINES.
>> WELL, IT'S SCHOOL, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE KIDS ARE USING IT TO GO TO AND FROM SCHOOL. I'M TRYING TO THINK.
>> DURING SCHOOL CROSSING HOURS, I WOULD BE FINE WITH THAT.
BUT YOU CAN RIDE YOUR BIKE ACROSS A CROSSWALK, CAN'T YOU?
>> YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GET OFF AND WALK.
>> REALLY? DOES ANYBODY DO THAT?
>> MOST PEOPLE RIDE BIKES IN THE STREET, RIGHT? BREAKING A LOT.
>> THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THE ONES IN MOST OF THE OTHER ORDINANCES.
THAT'S WHY WE PUT IT IN HERE FOR YOU TO TALK ABOUT.
YEAH, I WOULD I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S NECESSARY.
>> I THINK WE LEAVE IT IN TO KEEP IT CONSISTENT WITH BIKES.
I WOULD ONLY SAY IF IT'S DURING SCHOOL CROSSING OTHERWISE.
I JUST DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S GOING TO DO THAT.
THEY'RE JUST GOING TO KEEP RIDING.
>> AGAIN, IT'S COMPLICATING THINGS IN.
>> WELL, I WOULD JUST TAKE IT OUT.
>> POINTS, IS IT SCHOOL? IS IT NOT SCHOOL? I DON'T KNOW.
>> BUT IT'S CONSISTENT WITH BIKES.
>> KEEP IT CONSISTENT WITH BIKES. YEAH. WELL, IF WE'RE TRYING TO SIMPLIFY, JUST REMOVE IT.
>> I CAN'T REMOVE IT FOR THE BIKES BECAUSE THAT'S THE STATE LAW.
>> I'LL HAVE TO CHECK ON THAT FOR THE BIKES WHERE THAT IS THE LAW.
I COULD BE WRONG, BUT I DON'T THINK IT.
THE ONLY TIME I SEE PEOPLE WALKING THEIR BIKE ACROSS THE STREET IS DURING SCHOOL CROSSING WHEN THERE'S A CROSSING GUARD, WHICH IS YOU KNOW WHO TELLS THEM TO DO IT.
BUT YEAH, BUT OTHERWISE, I DON'T I DON'T I WOULD BE SURPRISED THAT THAT'S AN ACTUAL RULE.
EVEN THEN, I DON'T EVEN SEE I SEE THE KIDS HOP ON THEIR BIKES AND GO CROSS.
WE CAN ELIMINATE THE CROSSWALK, OR I CAN BRING IT BACK FOR MORE DEBATE WHEN I GET MORE INFORMATION.
>> USUALLY, THESE ORDINANCES DEAL A LITTLE BIT WITH PEDESTRIANS AND EQUIPMENT.
SHALL YIELD THE RIGHT AWAY TO PEDESTRIANS.
SLOW AND GIVE AUDIBLE SIGNAL BEFORE PASSING.
THE REASON FOR THAT IS YOU'RE GOING FASTER THAN THE PERSON.
I DON'T KNOW WHEN THEY SEE YOU OUT OF THE CORNER, THEY DON'T KNOW WHICH WAY YOU'RE COMING.
SO A LOT OF TIMES ORDINANCES ARE WRITTEN, YOU'LL SAY, PASSING ON THE RIGHT OR PASSING ON THE LEFT OR YOU CAN WRITE IT WHERE YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO PASS ON THE LEFT OR MIGHT BE GETTING A LITTLE COMPLICATED LIKE YOU SAY ON SOME OF THE OTHER STUFF TO JUST SAY LIKE IF YOU JUST SAY, HEY, I MEAN, AT LEAST I KNOW SOMEBODY'S BEHIND.
>> RIGHT. LIKE BICYCLISTS DO ON OUR SHARED BIKE TRAILS.
>> THE FIRST BULLET POINT COVERS THE SECOND ONE.
BECAUSE YOU DING THE BELL IS WHAT PEOPLE USUALLY DO, BUT I THINK THAT YIELDING TO THE PASSENGER TO THE RIGHT AWAY TO PEDESTRIANS SATISFIES BOTH POINTS. I AGREE.
>> LOOK, IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A DEVICE, ESPECIALLY ONE THAT'S MOTOR-ASSISTED AND THAT BRAKES? A DECK OR A SEAT.
I CAN IMAGINE THE VARIATIONS WITHOUT THOSE.
THEN YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DISENGAGE THE MOTOR SO YOU CAN WALK IT.
I THINK THAT'S ALL PRETTY STANDARD STUFF IN THE ORDINANCE.
>> I JUST HAD A THOUGHT AND IT GOES BACK TO THE DEFINITION OF THE MICRO-MOBILITY DEVICES.
ARE WE SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDING MOTORIZED WHEELCHAIRS? CAN WE?
>> MOTORIZED WHEELCHAIRS IS A TOTALLY SEPARATE ISSUE.
IT'S A DIFFERENT SUBCHAPTER IN THE GOVERNMENT CODE, AND SO WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH THAT.
>> WOULD WE SAY DOES NOT APPLY TO MOBILITY-ASSISTING DEVICES? I CAN'T REMEMBER WHEELCHAIR.
>> I HAVEN'T THERE'S A SPECIFIC NAME FOR THOSE.
WE HAVE NOT ADDRESSED THAT THIS INCLUDES ANY OF THOSE.
>> BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THAT TO INCLUDE THAT.
I DON'T WANT TO GO THERE, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE DON'T GET CONFUSED ABOUT IT.
>> NO, I CAN I HAVE THE LAW ON A FLASH DRIVE RIGHT HERE, BUT INSTEAD OF SCROLLING THROUGH IT, I CAN JUST TELL YOU THAT THIS ALREADY DOES NOT INCLUDE THAT.
>> SO I WOULD SAY EXCLUDES, IN THE DEFINITION, EXCLUDES SUCH AND SUCH.
JUST BY NOT PUTTING IT IN THERE, IT'S PRETTY IT DOES EXCLUDE THEM. BUT YOU CAN PUT IT IN THE.
>> IT'S LIKE A POWER WHEELCHAIR IS ONLY GO ABOUT 5-7 MILES AN HOUR.
[02:30:02]
>> I DON'T THINK ANY OF THIS SHALL BE EQUIPPED WITH IS NECESSARY.
I THINK IT'S I MEAN, COVER BOARDS DON'T TECHNICALLY HAVE BRAKES, I GUESS, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU NEED TO DEFINE STANDARD EQUIPMENT ON THESE DEVICES, THAT SEEMS UNNECESSARY, DOESN'T IT? WHAT WOULD BE THE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE?
>> WELL, THERE WAS NO DECK THAT WHEN A KID MAKES THEIR OWN?
>> WELL, YEAH, BUT THEY CAN MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING WE HAVEN'T THOUGHT OF YET THAT.
>> I THINK ANY COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE DEVICE WILL INCLUDE ALL THIS.
YEAH. I THINK THIS IS JUST ACCOMMODATING THINGS THAT A KID PULLS TOGETHER AND TANKERS AND MAKES.
>> WELL, HE SAYS DOESN'T HAVE A DECK, SO I'M NOT SUBJECT TO YOUR ORDINANCE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FOLLOW YOUR DEFINITION.
I DON'T KNOW. JUST TO ME, IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE TRYING TO PUT PARAMETERS RIGHT.
>> IT DOESN'T MEAN IT DOESN'T APPLY.
IT MEANS THEY COULD BE CITED IF CONDITIONS WARRANT.
LIKE IF THEY CAUSED AN ACCIDENT.
LIKE SAY GOD FORBID, AN ACCIDENT HAPPENS, AND IT IS CLEARLY THE SCOOTER'S FAULT.
THEN THERE'S ALL THIS STUFF WRONG.
>> RIGHT. SO THEY COULD BE CITED.
OH, YOUR THING DIDN'T HAVE BRAKES, OR YOUR BRAKES WERE NOT WORKING.
>> I MEAN, YOU'D CITE THEM BECAUSE THEY CRASHED INTO A CAR. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW.
>> THERE COULD BE MULTIPLE CITATIONS IN ONE INCIDENT.
>> YEAH. I JUST TO ME, IT'S LIKE THE DEVICE IS THE DEVICE.
WE DON'T REALLY HAVE TO SAY THE STANDARD EQUIPMENT ON IT.
I WOULD JUST TAKE IT OUT. SIMPLIFY.
>> SIMPLE. I MEAN, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THIS THING EASY FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND.
>> I THINK IT'S EASIER TO UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE TO HAVE BRAKES VERSUS YIELD THE RIGHT OF WAY TO PEDESTRIANS.
I DON'T THINK AN EIGHT-YEAR-OLD REALLY WILL GRASP THAT CONCEPT CONSISTENTLY.
PEOPLE WALKING PEOPLE STAY OUT OF THEIR WAY, BUT YOU HAVE TO SAY IT THE RIGHT WAY.
>> BUT I WILL JUST INTERJECT A LITTLE BIT HERE.
ONE OF THE MODELS THAT HAS BEEN USED TO IMPLEMENT THE ORDINANCES AFTER THEY GET PASSED IS THAT WE GO TO ALL THE SCHOOLS AND WE GIVE A CLASS ON THIS.
HIGHLAND VILLAGE IS THE MOST LOCAL EXAMPLE.
THEY WERE ABLE TO GO TO EVERY SINGLE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.
THE SCHOOL DISTRICT MADE ROOM FOR THEM TO DO THAT.
EVERY SINGLE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENT THAT WAS THERE THAT DAY, OBVIOUSLY, GOT A CLASS AND THEY WENT THROUGH THIS ORDINANCE LIKE I'M GOING THROUGH IT WITH YOU, YOU GO THROUGH WITH AGE APPROPRIATE WITH SROS, THOSE PEOPLE.
A LOT OF THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN IS WRITTEN IN ADULT SPEAK, WE WILL TRANSLATE IT DOWN TO CHILD SPEAK AND MAKE IT FUN AND ALL THAT STUFF.
I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO LOST IN THE WEEDS OF WARNING IF A CHILD CAN UNDERSTAND THIS BECAUSE HALF-TIME READING IT.
>> THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE READING AN ORDINANCE. ORDINANCE.
>> SO YOU WANT TO JUST ASK ABOUT, THIS BREAK THIS EQUIPMENT ISSUE, WHETHER YOU ALL WANT TO INCLUDE IT OR NOT?
>> THEN THIS IS THE LAST SLIDE AND IT'S ALL IN BOLD.
SO IT SAYS ANY PERSON FOUND GUILTY OF VIOLATING ANY OF THE TERMS OF THIS CHAPTER SHALL BE FINED IN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $50, WHICH I JUST MADE UP $50 AND SUBSEQUENT CONVICTION SHALL NOT BE A FINE ABOVE $100.
SOME ORDINANCES GET REALLY COMPLICATED.
THEY'RE LIKE ON YOUR THIRD ONE.
YOU GET $150 OR SOME OF THEM ARE LIKE $25.
AS A POLICE OFFICER, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN THE AMOUNT AS LONG AS IT HELPS DETER, AND SO I BELIEVE PAYING $50 BECAUSE YOUR KID VIOLATED THE SCOOTER ORDINANCE IS GOING TO STATING NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE.
NOBODY WANTS TO GIVE AWAY $50.
BUT IT ALSO WHEN YOU WRITE SHALL NOT EXCEED, IT GIVES THE JUDGE ALL THE LEEWAY SHE NEEDS.
TO MAKE IT $10, $5, COMMUNITY SERVICE, GOES TAKE A SAFETY CLASS.
WELL, ALL OF THAT'S AVAILABLE TO THE JUDGE WHEN YOU WRITE IT NOT TO EXCEED.
IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY AND $5 IS GOING TO STATING AND THE JUDGE DETERMINES THAT $5 IS AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
>> I LIKE GIVING THE JUDGE THE LEEWAY.
>> NOW, THE AMOUNTS, DO YOU WANT TO DEBATE THOSE?
>> YEAH. WE DEBATE EVERYTHING ELSE.
NO, I'M JUST KIDDING. I'M GOING TO.
MAYBE THE ONLY THING I'D WANT TO MAKE SURE IS THAT IT'S COMMENSURATE TO OTHER FINES, AND I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE THE SAME AS A SPEEDING TICKET, BUT I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE, SO.
>> THIS WOULD PROBABLY BE THE LOWEST FINE WE HAVE.
>> WHAT DOES HIGHLAND VILLAGE DO, DO YOU KNOW?
[02:35:01]
>> I MEAN, WE COULD HAVE A KID THAT LIVES IN HIGHLAND VILLAGE GOING TO MARCUS, SO THEY'RE IN FLOWER MOW WHILE THEY'RE RIDING THEIR SCOOTER.
SOME CONSISTENCY BETWEEN THE TWO MUNICIPALITIES, I THINK WOULD MAKE SENSE.
I MEAN, THEY COULD BE GOING TO MARCUS, RIDING HOME TO HIGHLAND VILLAGE.
WHEN YOU RIDE A TICKET TO A 13-YEAR-OLD, YOU DON'T WRITE A TICKET TO A 13-YEAR-OLD.
WHERE IS WHAT DO YOU DO IF THEY'RE?
>> WE CAN. THAT'S WHY WE WRITE IN THERE THE WE CAN WRITE THE PARENT A TICKET.
BECAUSE THE 13 YEAR OLDS NOT PAYING TICKET THE PARENTS PAYING THE TICKET, GIVE IT TO THE PARENT.
>> HOW DO YOU GIVE IT JUST TAKE THEM?
>> OH, YOU TAKE THEM HOME. I WAS WONDERING HOW.
>> REMEMBER BACK IN THE DAYS WE HAD CURFEW ORDINANCE? SAME THING. WE WOULD PICK UP THE TEAM, TAKE THEM HOME.
IF THIS KID KEPT DOING IT, WE WRITE PARENTS TICKETS.
THEN THEY START PAYING BETTER ATTENTION.
>> I WAS THINKING A LITTLE BIT. KIDS GOING TO THROW AWAY A TICKET.
IT WARRANTS FOR THEIR ARREST AND GET ARRESTED FOR NOT PAYING IT.
I CHECKED WITH THE COURTS AND MADE SURE THAT I WAS VERY CLEAR ON HOW THE COURT DOES IT HERE AND ALL THE RULES.
>> IS THERE FAILURE TO APPEAR PENALTY?
>> THERE ARE, AND IT CAN STACK UP AND THEN WHEN YOU TURN 18, THEN WE COME GET YOU OR WHATEVER.
>> BUT YOU HAVE 7,000 TICKETS FOR RIDING YOUR SCOOTER WITHOUT A HELMET ON A STREET OVER 35 MILES PER HOUR IN THE DARK.
>> I ASKED THE COURT DIRECTOR ABOUT THE TEENAGE SCOFFLAWS ON THEIR TICKETS, AND SHE SAID, THIS TOWN DOESN'T REALLY HAVE THAT, THAT SHE CAN THINK OF THE ONLY SIX INSTANCES THE WHOLE TIME, WHERE IT JUST KEPT BUILDING UP.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT A VERY COMMON OCCURRENCE.
>> YEAH. OKAY. I MEAN, MOST OF THE PARENTS IN THE TOWN ARE DECENT AND DON'T WANT TO TICKET AND ARE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF IT.
WE'RE GOOD WITH THIS AND JUST LEAVING IT.
WHAT ELSE DID I MISS? OR WHAT ELSE DID DOES JP NEED TO WRITE A NOTE FOR? OKAY.
>> YES. IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ON THIS SURVEY.
WE'LL GET TO WORK ON THAT AND BE ABLE TO SEND THAT OUT.
WE'RE ALSO GOING TO GET BACK WITH ALL ON UTILITY BILLS.
I'M JUST NOT SURE OF THE SCHEDULE AND WE'RE AT BETWEEN PRINTING AND SENDING THEM OUT, BUT WE'LL GET A BETTER IDEA OF THAT.
>> WE ALSO HAVE A QUESTION THAT SAYS IN THE PAST 12 MONTHS, I HAVE OBSERVED THREE NEAR MISSES, MORE THAN FIVE ON A DAILY BASIS.
SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO GAUGE THE NUMBER OF NEAR MISSES BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY THERE ARE.
THEN A FREE FORM WHERE THEY CAN ADD A NARRATIVE, ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS, WHATEVER, BECAUSE THEY MIGHT GIVE SOME ANECDOTAL INPUT THAT WE'D WANT TO KNOW ABOUT.
>> ON THE FREE THE FREE RESPONSE IS A LITTLE ANYTHING THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET IS PUBLIC INFORMATION IS OUT THERE.
JUST A FYI WHEN WE DO LEAVE AN OPEN RESPONSE, YOU COULD GET ANYTHING.
THAT'S JUST A WARNING. WE CAN DO THAT.
IT'S THAT IT WILL BE A PART OF THE OFFICIAL.
WE'LL START GETTING TO WORK ON SOME OF SURVEY QUESTIONS.
OBVIOUSLY, YOU CAN'T GET ALL YOUR QUESTIONS OUT JUST HERE.
IF SOMETHING POPS UP LATER ON THAT YOU REALLY FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT THAT YOU WANT IN THE SURVEY, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SEND.
>> IT MAIL US THE DRAFT FINALIZED AND THEN WE CAN GIVE YOU INPUT INDIVIDUALLY BY EMAIL.
>> WE WILL IN HOPING TO GET THAT OUT TO YOU.
WE'LL TRY TO GET THAT OUT TO YOU NEXT WEEK. THANK YOU.
>> JP, YOU GOT THE NOTE ABOUT DEFINING RECKLESS OPERATION.
>> I DID. I WROTE THAT DOWN AND EXACTLY WHAT CHIEF COULON SAID IS THAT'S GOING TO BE A CONVERSATION WITH BRIN AND THE LAW TEAM.
I THINK WHAT'S REALLY GOOD IS TO HAVE THIS ON TAPE TO UNDERSTAND YOUR INTENT.
THEN WE CAN WORK WITH THE LAWYERS TO SEE IF THAT IS A VIABLE PATH.
I KNOW I'M GOING TO BE WATCHING THIS PRESENTATION OVER AND OVER AGAIN. THANK YOU.
>> THANK CHEF FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK AND FOR TOLERATING THE DEBATE.
BUT I MEAN, THIS JUST GOES TO SHOW HOW HARD IT IS TO COME UP WITH AN ORDINANCE THAT IS EFFECTIVE IN THE INTENTION AND ENFORCEABLE, BUT NOT BEING IN ANY STATE.
I'M GLAD WE WENT THROUGH THE EXERCISE.
I APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S INPUT.
>> WE HAVE THE LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS WITH CHIEF HENLEY.
[02:40:03]
HE'S GOING TO PRESENT ON THE FIRE AND BUILDING CODE UPDATES FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLE CHARGING.>> THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN AND THE CLOSER AND ONLY HAVE 130 SLIDES.
I WANTED TO GET SOME INPUT ON THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC.
EACH YEAR, OUR FIRE MARSHAL AND THE FIRE DEPARTMENT BRING TO YOU THE FIRE CODE TO APPROVE AS IT CHANGES.
WE USUALLY COME TO YOU WITH NCTCOG AMENDMENTS AS WELL, COUNCIL, GOVERNMENT RECOMMENDATIONS, AND WE'LL EITHER INCLUDE SOME OF THOSE OR NOT, AND WE TALK ABOUT THAT, YOU GUYS APPROVE THEM.
BUT I WANTED TO GET AHEAD OF THIS ONE A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING I AM VERY PROUD OF, ALSO VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT.
WE HAD AN EV SUMMIT, OR ELECTRICAL VEHICLE SUMMIT.
TEEX PUT THAT ON, WHO WAS OUR STATE TRADING AGENCY, LAST YEAR, LATE LAST YEAR, ABOUT THIS TIME.
FROM THAT SUMMIT, WE LEARNED A LOT OF STUFF ABOUT THE ANODES AND THE CATHODES AND THE YUCKY STUFF THAT THESE BATTERIES ARE MADE OF, AND ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY CATCH FIRE AND THE THERMAL RUNAWAY.
WE KNEW A LOT, BUT WE AS A FIRE INDUSTRY ARE WELL BEHIND THE CAR INDUSTRY IN TERMS OF THIS IS A NEW EMERGING PROBLEM, LITHIUM ION AND THE OTHER TECHNOLOGIES OF BATTERIES.
IT'S SEPARATED INTO MANY CATEGORIES, WHICH WE WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR.
BUT THE ONE I WANTED TO BRING YOU TONIGHT WAS HOW WE CAN AFFECT POSITIVE CHANGE TO KEEP OUR FIREFIGHTERS SAFE AND OUR CITIZENS SAFE FOR SURE.
SO OUT OF THIS SUMMIT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK ME RIGHT AWAY WAS ANALOGY I'LL GIVE YOU IS A GAS PUMP WHEN YOU'RE PUMPING YOUR GAS, YOU HAVE A FUEL SHUT OFF RIGHT THERE VISIBLE.
THERE'S NOTHING IN CODE I LEARNED THAT HAS THAT FOR ELECTRICAL VEHICLE STATIONS, AND THAT REALLY CONCERNED ME.
STILL NOT ANYTHING IN THE CODE TODAY, NOR BEING PROPOSED IN THE CODE.
MYSELF AND THE FIRE MARSHAL FROM FRISCO GOT TOGETHER.
I CAME BACK AND LISTED OUR FIRE MARSHAL, JASON BOLJACK AND HE HAS DONE A WONDERFUL JOB ENGAGING STAKEHOLDERS THROUGHOUT THE REGION, THROUGHOUT THE NORTH TEXAS REGION, AS WELL AS THE NCTCOG, AND WE CAME UP WITH SOME AMENDMENTS, SOME NCTCOG AMENDMENTS, AND THEN US BEING A LITTLE MORE ADVANCED, WE CAME UP WITH A FEW MORE THAT WE WANTED TO SHARE WITH YOU AND GET YOUR FEEDBACK ON.
I DO NOT WANT TO BE OVERLY BURDENSOME TO DEVELOPMENT, BUT I WANT THE SAFETY OF OUR CITIZENS AND OUR FIREFIGHTERS AS OUR TOP PRIORITY.
FOR THE NCTCOG AMENDMENTS, THEY'RE GOING TO PROPOSE FOR THE NORTH TEXAS REGION THAT CHARGE STATIONS SHALL NOT BE LOCATED INSIDE BUILDINGS, EXCEPT WHERE APPROVED FOR PARKING GARAGE LOCATIONS AS PER THE NATURAL ELECTRIC CODE.
INSIDE PARKING GARAGES, THEY SHOULD BE AT GRADE LEVEL ALONG THE EXTERIOR PERIMETER WALLS AND SHALL BE WITH 150 FEET OF A FIRE ACCESS ROADWAY OR BE LOCATED AT THE VERY TOP LEVEL.
WHAT THAT IS FOR IS IF WE ARE IN AN UNDERGROUND PARKING STRUCTURE, AND YOU CAN IMAGINE CAR FIRE IN AN UNDERGROUND PARKING STRUCTURE.
IT WOULD BE US LIKE WALKING INTO A WALL OF HEAT BECAUSE ALL THAT HEAT IS COMING UP THE ENTRANCE WAY, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S NOT VENTILATED.
IT'S A VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION FOR US TO BE IN.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE AND NCTCOG AGREES THAT THEY'RE AT ENTRANCE LEVEL, OR TOP LEVEL, AND THAT THEY'RE ACCESSIBLE BY OUR HOSELACE.
FIRST, I'M GOING TO GO OVER THE NCTCOG AMENDMENTS AND YOU'LL SEE WE'LL GO OVER THE NEXT FEW SLIDES.
THINGS IN RED WILL BE OUR PROPOSALS AS WELL TO ENHANCE.
AND THEN R-3 AND R-4 OCCUPANCIES, THOSE ARE YOUR BOARDING HOMES, YOUR NURSING FACILITIES, ASSISTED FACILITIES LIKE RESIDENTIAL TYPE.
APPROVED CHARGING STATIONS IN THE PRIVATE GARAGE SHALL HAVE A LISTED HEAT ALARM INSTALLED AND CONNECTED TO THAT SMOKE ALARM INSIDE THAT DWELLING.
IF ANYTHING HAPPENED, THAT THOSE ALARMS WOULD GO OFF.
THIS IS MY PERSONAL FAVORITE, WHICH IS THE DISCONNECT SWITCHES FOR THE EV STATIONS.
DISCONNECT SWITCH SHALL BE PROVIDED AT AN APPROVED LOCATION TO STOP THE POWER TRANSFER OF THE CHARGING UNIT.
IN CASE OF FIRE OR OTHER EMERGENCIES.
THE EMERGENCY DISCONNECT SWITCH FOR EXTERIOR CHARGING STATIONS SHALL BE PROVIDED WITH READY ACCESS.
IT SHALL BE WITHIN 100 FEET BUT NOT LESS THAN 20 FEET FROM THE CHARGING STATION.
THE EMERGENCY DISCONNECT SWITCH SHALL BE PROVIDED WITH READY ACCESS
[02:45:01]
AND INSTALLED AN APPROVED LOCATION FOR INTERIOR CHARGING OPERATIONS.THEN THE HEIGHT OF THOSE BE 42 INCHES AND AT LEAST 48 INCHES HIGH.
VERTICAL FROM THE FLOOR LEVEL TO THE ACTIVATING BUT THEN THE SIGN, THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE WANTING TO DO WITH THE SIGN, WHICH IS THE RIGHT WHITE REFLECTIVE BACKGROUND WEATHER RESISTANT.
WE HAVE A FEW CHANGES TO THAT THAT WE WANTED TO SHOW YOU HERE A LITTLE BIT THAT MATCH SOME OF OUR OTHER THINGS IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT THAT WE'RE DOING ALREADY.
THEN THIS IS ANOTHER ONE THAT'S VERY CONCERNING AND IT CROSSES OVER TO SOME OF THE OTHER AREAS WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO, WHICH IS ACCIDENTS.
YOU MAY HAVE AN ACCIDENT IN AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE THAT TO A NORMAL GAS OPERATING VEHICLE IS REALLY NOT SERIOUS AT ALL.
A FRONTAL COLLISION OR A SIDE COLLISION, EXCUSE ME, THAT JUST DAMAGES THE FRONT QUARTER PANEL.
WELL, AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE, IF IT CRIMPS THAT ORANGE WIRE, IT MIGHT LIGHT OFF NOW, TWO DAYS FROM NOW, FIVE DAYS FROM NOW, TWO WEEKS FROM NOW, DEPENDING ON THE SEVERITY, IF IT WAS CUT, WHAT IT'S HITTING, DOES WATER GET IN AND ALL THESE THINGS.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE PUT IN THERE THAT DAMAGE ELECTRICAL VEHICLE BATTERY SHALL NOT BE STORED IN ANY BUILDING.
SO THE BATTERY IS IMPALED OR DAMAGED ANYWAY, THERMAL RUNAWAY IS SURE TO HAPPEN AT SOME POINT.
EVEN OUR TOWING PARTNERS HAVE SPECIFIC BINS, WHEN THEY TOW A CAR, THEY SIT THERE FOR A WHILE.
IF YOU'VE SEEN SOME OF THE INFORMATION FROM THE HURRICANES THAT ALL THE WATER THAT'S THERE, THESE CARS ARE LIGHTING OFF, WE'VE HAD TWO BIG INCIDENCES CLOSE TO US, WHICH IS AT THE AUCTION HOUSE RIGHT OUTSIDE IN THE SD TO THE WEST, AND THOSE WERE CAUSED BY DAMAGE BATTERIES, EV BATTERIES, AND THEY LIT OFF A BUNCH OF CARS.
SO WE WANT TO ENHANCE THAT AS WELL.
SOME OF THIS IN RED IS WHERE THE FIRE MARSHAL I BELIEVE THAT WE CAN ENHANCE THE FIRST ONE IS JUST ADDING A SCOPE, WHAT THAT IMPLIES OR FALLS UNDER THE PROVISION IN THE SCOPE OF THIS PROPOSED CHANGE IN COG AMENDMENT TO OUR FIRE CODE.
IT'S TALKING ABOUT THESE ELECTRIC VEHICLE STATIONS IN COMMERCIAL SETTINGS, AND THEY ENSURE THEY COMPLY WITH FIRE SAFETY STANDARDS TO PROTECT LIFE AND PROPERTY FROM THE HAZARDS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS ELECTRIC VEHICLE CHARGING AND THE CODE SHALL ADDRESS REQUIREMENTS FOR ELECTRICAL INSTALLATIONS, FIRE PROTECTION MEASURES, AND EMERGENCY ACCESS TO ENSURE SAFE OPERATION AND ACCESSIBILITY FOR FIRST RESPONDERS AND EMERGENCY RESPONDERS.
THEN THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE CHARGING STATION, WE ADDED IN THERE, NEW MODIFIED OR REPLACED.
IF YOU'RE CHANGING IT, YOU NEED TO FALL UNDER THIS, IF YOU'RE ADDING A NEW ONE, OR IF YOU'RE REPLACING AN OLD ONE, THEY WOULD FALL INTO THIS, AND THE SPECIFIC UL STANDARDS ARE IN THERE AS WELL.
THEN WE GO INTO THE PARKING GARAGES AND WE WANTED TO HAVE THAT EXTRA LEVEL SAFETY, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE NOT VENTILATED, THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE A CARBON MONOXIDE DETECTOR, BECAUSE THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS THERE.
NOT ONLY IF THE CAR LIGHTS OFF, THEN THESE ALARMS WILL SOUND.
SOMEBODY WILL KNOW ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S GIVING OFF A LOT OF STUFF, AND HOPEFULLY THAT ALARM WILL LET US KNOW BEFOREHAND WHAT'S GOING ON.
THAT'S ITEM ONE, CARBON MONOXIDE DETECTOR CONNECTED TO THE ALARM.
NUMBER 2 IS AND WE JUST PUT THIS IN ONE BLANKET FOR EVERY FIVE, AND THIS IS WHERE I'M A LITTLE TORN IS THE DEVELOPER HAVING TO SUPPLY THOSE OR THAT PARKING GARAGE HAVING TO SUPPLY THOSE.
BUT THAT WOULD ENSURE THAT SOMETHING COULD BE DONE TO PROTECT ALL THE OTHER CARS.
THAT A THERMAL BLANKET COULD BE USED.
THE ISSUE I HAVE WITH IT AND WHAT I WANTED TO DISCUSS IS, THOSE ARE TOUGH FOR AN AVERAGE PERSON TO DO BY THEMSELVES.
FIRE DEPARTMENT WERE TRAINED TO DO THAT.
BUT WE ONLY THROUGH BUDGET, WE CAN'T HAVE A TON OF THESE THEY'RE VERY EXPENSIVE.
THEY'RE ABOUT $1,800, $1,500 OR $1,800.
WE HAVE ONE OR TWO PER YEAR BUDGET THIS YEAR. THANK YOU.
WE CAN GET THERE, BUT IF THEY'RE THERE AND LOCATED, THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT COULD BE DONE PRETTY QUICK IF SOME PEOPLE ARE AROUND.
THOSE WERE THE THREE ISSUES THAT WE THOUGHT IN CHARGING STATIONS WOULD HELP ENSURE CITIZEN AND FIREFIGHTER SAFETY.
>> CHIEF, THIS IS INSIDE PARKING GARAGES ONLY?
[02:50:01]
>> IF THEY HAVE A BANK OF FIVE UP TO FIVE CHARGING STATIONS, WE'RE GOING TO REQUIRE THEM TO BUY AN $1,800 THERMAL BLANKET AND MAKE IT ACCESSIBLE TO WHERE THE PUBLIC COULD POTENTIALLY PULL IT UP OVER A CAR.
RIGHT BY THE CHARGING STATION SOMEWHERE AND THEY COULD PUT IT AND WOULD PROTECT OTHER CARS, IT PROTECTS IT STOPS ALL THE SMOKE AND HEAT FROM ESCAPING THE BLANKET.
>> RIGHT. DO WE HAVE ANY CHARGING STATIONS IN PARKING GARAGES TODAY THAT WE DO?
>> WE HAVE ONE, IT'S IN THE CLASS A OFFICE ON THIRD FLOOR.
>> BUT WE HAVE ANOTHER PARKING GARAGE GOING UP IN LAKESIDE.
>> DO THEY HAVE PLANS TO INCLUDE CHARGING STATIONS THERE?
>> BUT IF WE PASS THIS FAST ENOUGH.
THEY WOULD BE SUBJECT TO IT [OVERLAPPING].
YOU MIND GOING UP TO THE [OVERLAPPING].
>> YEAH. YOU'RE RIGHT. EXACTLY RIGHT.
MAYOR PRO TEM, IF WE PASS THIS.
THAT'S WHAT THE FARM MARSHAL NOW WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS GET AHEAD OF THEM BEING A MINI IN TOWN.
>> THERE ARE TWO FACILITIES GOING UP IN LAKESIDE, ONE WITH TERENHARE AND ONE THE STANDALONE SUBGRADE PARKING GARAGE.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO GET AHEAD OF THAT SO WE CAN POSSIBLY GET SOME OF THESE REQUIREMENTS INTO THOSE BUILDINGS.
>> I SEE THE VALUE OF THE BLANKET, BUT MY CONCERN IS THAT A GOOD SAMARITAN COULD BE SERIOUSLY INJURED IN TRYING TO DEPLOY THIS BLANKET.
THEY'RE NOT TRAINED. THEY MIGHT NOT BE PHYSICALLY ABLE.
THE CAR COULD EXPLODE, THEY DO EXPLODE.
I WOULD WANT TO RUN THE OTHER WAY IF I WERE THERE. I KNOW I COULDN'T DO IT.
>> I COULD BE MUCH LIKE SOME GIVE MY CLASSES.
CLASS THREE HOSES AND BUILDINGS WHERE ONLY FIRE DEPARTMENT COULD USE IT.
IT COULD BE ONE OF THOSE THAT IS SUPPLIED FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND BECAUSE IT'S NOT ON EVERY ONE OF MY RIGS.
THE FIRST AMBULANCE THAT GOT THERE OR FIRST ENGINE COULD GOT THERE COULD GET IT AND PUT IT ON.
>> THERE ARE FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEMS IN PARKING GARAGES?
>> IN MANY, THERE ARE BY CODE, BUT COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF WATER.
IT MAY CONTAIN, ESPECIALLY IF JUST THE EXTERIOR OR THE FABRICS OF THE CAR ARE ON FIRE AND NOT THE BATTERIES, WILL DO A GREAT JOB.
IT WILL NOT HANDLE AND SUPPRESS AN EV FIRE.
>> SO WE HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM IN HOMES WITH CHARGING THESE EV?
THAT'S THE OTHER PROBLEM, WHICH WE REALLY CAN'T REGULATE.
HOWEVER, WE WORK WITH OUR BUILDING AND PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
THEY'VE BEEN WONDERFUL AND HELPING US WHEN SOMEBODY HAS A PERMIT TO GET ONE OF THOSE, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IS NOTIFIED, AND WE FLAG THAT IN OUR CAD, AS WELL AS OUR NOTES FOR THAT ADDRESS.
WE KNOW THAT GOING IN, IF IT'S WHITE SMOKE COMING FROM A GARAGE, WE MIGHT KNOW THAT THAT ESS OR ELECTRONIC STORAGE SYSTEM IS ACTIVATED AND THAT'S YUCKY SMOKE THAT CAN KILL YOU.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT BREATHING AVRASON ON THAT SMOKE IS DEADLY.
>> DO YOU JUST ASSUME LIKE A UNIVERSAL PRECAUTION THAT IT COULD BE THAT?
>> WHAT IF THERE WERE A DECAL ON PEOPLE COULD PUT ON THEIR GARAGE WINDOW OR SOMETHING.
>> WE'VE ACTUALLY THOUGHT ABOUT THAT AS A GROUP.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW FEASIBLE IT WOULD BE BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE THAT TO EACH CITIZEN THAT WANTS TO PUT IN AN EV CHARGER.
>> GOOD THING WE HAVE A SIGN SHOP THAT CAN PROVE IT.
>> YES, THEY CAN MAKE THOSE [OVERLAPPING].
IT WOULD BE A WEATHER RESISTANT VINYL, AND IT'S JUST OUR THOUGHT WAS JUST THE SIMPLE YELLOW TRIANGLE WITH THE ELECTRIC MARK IN IT, AND THAT WOULD NOTIFY ANYBODY PD BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE TOOLS THAT WE HAVE IF THEY WALK UP ON SCENE.
>> I LIKE THAT IT WOULD BE A CUSTOMER SERVICE THING.
I DON'T KNOW THAT I WANT TO MAKE IT MANDATORY, BUT I THINK ENOUGH PEOPLE WOULD BUY INTO IT AND SAY, HEY, THIS COULD BE A RISK.
I WANT TO KEEP MY EMERGENCY SERVICES FOLKS SAFE.
HERE YOU GO. ESPECIALLY IF WE HAND THEM OUT.
AT PERMITTING, WE COULD DO IT.
WHAT ARE THE EXCEPTION OR, ZV CHARGES AND MIXED USE BUILDINGS ARE NOT PERMITTED.
THE REASON FOR THAT IS USUALLY THE RESIDENTS ARE ON THE TOP, COULD BE A LESLIE POOL SUPPLIES ON THE BOTTOM.
WE DON'T WANT THAT. WE WANT THAT EXCEPTION IN THERE.
AGAIN, EV CHARGERS SHALL NOT BE INSTALLED UNDERGROUND OR SUBGRADE IN OPEN OR CLOSED PARKING STRUCTURES.
>> IN ALLOWING THEM IN ANY PARKING STRUCTURES.
IF THERE IS A FIRE IT BURNS SO HOT.
IS THERE A POTENTIAL TO DAMAGE THE STRUCTURE OF THE PARKING STRUCTURE ITSELF?
>> YES, SIR. THE SPALLING OF THE CONCRETE COULD HAPPEN, ESPECIALLY DEPENDS ON HOW CLOSE IT IS.
[02:55:01]
AGAIN, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE ASKED FOR IN THE BUDGET OR AT LEAST THE DISCONNECT CHARGING PORTS SO THAT THEY DON'T MOVE IF WE'RE TRYING TO EXTRICATE A PATIENT OR WE'RE WORKING SOMETHING ELSE.THE OTHER IDEA WAS A DOLLY, HOOK UP REAL QUICK.
YOU CAN EITHER MOVE EXPOSURES OUT OF THE WAY, OTHER EXPOSURES OR YOU COULD MOVE IT AWAY.
BUT THE FIRE BLANKET IS SERVING THAT PURPOSE, THAT IF IT'S IMPINGING ON A BRIDGE OR THE STRUCTURE OF THE PARKING GARAGE OR WHATEVER IT IS, WE COULD THROW THAT BLANKET ON THERE AND THEN TRY TO MOVE THE VEHICLE AFTER THAT, ONCE IT'S SUPPRESSED A LITTLE BIT, AND IT STOPS ALL THAT HEAT FROM SPALLING THE CONCRETE ABOVE IT.
>> IF IT'S ALREADY AND FORGET MY IGNORANCE, BUT IT WAS ALREADY THAT MATURE OF A FIRE AND IT'S REALLY FULLY ENGULFED, THERE'S ALL THAT HEAT, THERE'S ALL THAT TOXIC SMOKE, CAN EVEN FIREFIGHTERS IN APPROPRIATE GEAR GET CLOSE ENOUGH TO TAKE THAT BLANKET ON TO MAKE IT A DIFFERENCE.
THAT'S ONE OF THE THIRD PHASES WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT AT SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE, BECAUSE I'M SURE I'LL BE ANSWERING QUESTIONS ON WHY I DIDN'T PUT THAT EV FIRE OUT.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO DEPENDING ON WHAT'S GOING ON AT THE TIME, WE'LL COOL EXPOSURES.
BUT IF IT'S LET'S SAY JUST AN ACCIDENT AND THE CARS ON FIRE, WE'RE GOING TO LET IT BURN AND IF THE BATTERIES ARE INVOLVED.
IT'S BETTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT IF IT BURNS INSTEAD OF US FLOODING THE CAR AND THE BATTERIES WITH ALL THE WATER THAT THEN DRAINS.
WE'RE ALSO GOING TO PUT UP, WE GOT SOME ENVIRONMENT BERMS FROM ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES, WE'RE TO MAKE SURE STORM DRAINS ARE PROTECTED BEFORE WE HAVE ANY WATER.
>> THE OTHER THING IS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO PUT IT OUT WITH THE WATER.
IT'S JUST GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF WATER AND A LOT OF TIME AND DAYS AND EVEN IF YOU FULLY IMMERSE IT.
I DON'T WANT THAT COMING DOWN OUR STORM DRAIN, AND SO WE'RE GOING TO LET IT BURN SAFELY.
IT'S GOING TO BURN HOT AND IT'S GOING TO BE A WHILE UNTIL IT'S SAFE TO MOVE AND GET OUT OF THERE.
THE OTHER THING TO YOUR POINT, COUNCILMAN TAYLOR IS WHEN WE GET CLOSE TO THOSE THINGS, OUR GEAR COST, FULL SET IS ABOUT $10,000.
WHEN THESE BATTERIES ARE INVOLVED, THEY GIVE OFF A NEW REPORT JUST RELEASED FROM [INAUDIBLE] BECAUSE THEY COMMISSIONED A STUDY ON OUR STRUCTURAL FIREFIGHTING GEAR AND THE METHODS WE USE TO CLEAN IT.
THE HEAVY METALS THAT ARE IN THE GEAR FROM THESE FIRES DO NOT COME OUT WITH REGULAR CLEANING.
YOU HAVE TO DO A CO_2 CLEANING, AND THEN THAT DOESN'T GET THEM ALL.
THOSE HEAVY METALS ARE KNOWN CARCINOGENS.
IF I'M INVOLVED IN A VEHICLE FIRE WHERE MY GUYS GOT CLOSE ENOUGH TO WHERE THEIR GEAR GOT THAT SMOKE OR THOSE HEAVY METALS, I PRETTY MUCH HAVE TO DESTROY THE GEAR AND ISSUE THEM A NEW SET, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO RISK ANY CARCINOGENS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
THAT'S GOING TO BE THE PREVAILING INDUSTRY STANDARD.
THERE'S ONLY A FEW CO_2 CLEANING EXTRACTORS, AND IT'S VERY COST-PROHIBITIVE AT THIS TIME.
THEY'RE LOOKING AT OTHER METHODS OF MANUFACTURE AND THEY'RE ALSO LOOKING AT OTHER METHODS OF CLEANING.
>> GIVEN ALL OF THAT, AND THAT'S HOW YOU'D LET A FIRE BURN OR LET A CAR BURN IF IT'S JUST ON THE SIDE OF THE STREET YOU'D TAKE YOUR PRECAUTION TO PROTECT THE ENVIRONMENT, DO ALL THAT.
WITH IT BEING SO HAZARDOUS, ALL THESE ISSUES YOU JUST BROUGHT UP, DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO ALLOW IT IN A PARKING GARAGE? BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO BE MORE MOTIVATED TO TRY TO SAVE A STRUCTURE FROM POTENTIALLY COLLAPSING BECAUSE OF HEAT DAMAGE, IF IT'S IN A PARKING STRUCTURE, I DON'T KNOW.
IS THAT GOING TO INCREASE THE RISK TO THE FIREFIGHTERS NEEDING TO FEEL THEY NEED TO GET THERE TO PUT IT OUT TO SAY THE STRUCTURE AS WELL?
>> YES. RISK IS, OF COURSE, WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR.
WE TRY TO MITIGATE THAT RISK, HOWEVER POSSIBLE.
IF WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY OF THESE IN PARKING STRUCTURES, I WOULD BE HAPPY.
>> THAT WAS ACTUALLY THE DIRECTION THAT WE WANTED TO GO INITIALLY.
BUT WHEN WE TOOK THIS TO COG, THERE WAS A LOT OF STAKEHOLDER PUSHBACK NOT TO EXCLUDE THEM FROM PARKING GARAGES I THINK MOST OF THAT IS COMING FROM YOUR LARGER MUNICIPALITIES BECAUSE YOU'RE PLANOS, YOUR IRVIN'S, YOUR FORT WORTH, YOUR FRISCO'S, THEY'VE ALREADY GOT THEM.
THEY'RE ALREADY THERE THEY JUST NEED TO REGULATE THEM.
MY ARGUMENT WAS FIMONS YOUR OWN.
WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF THESE, SO DO WE WRITE IT THAT WAY? LET'S GET AHEAD OF IT AND IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO ALLOW IT IN A MIXED-USE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL, ANYTHING ON TOP OF IT.
IT'S JUST BASICALLY BE A FREE-STANDING PARKING STRUCTURE IF WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW IT IN A PARKING STRUCTURE, MAYBE JUST A TOP FLOOR, INSTEAD OF THE BOTTOM FLOOR AS WELL.
I DON'T KNOW. I'M TRYING TO DO YOUR JOB.
[03:00:03]
>> THAT HEAT WILL STILL IMPACT THE WHOLE STRUCTURE, EVEN IF IT'S ON THE TOP.
>> MOST OF THAT'S GOING STILL NOT GOING TO IT'S NOT GOING TO CREATE ANY STRUCTURAL ISSUES.
OF COURSE, WE WILL BE COOL ON THE GROUND WITH HOSE LAYS.
TO HAVE STANDPIPES, WE FEED INTO THAT STANDPIPE AND THEN ATTACK IT FROM THE TOP.
WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM IN PARKING GARAGE.
IF THEY WERE RIGHT OUTSIDE IT, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
AS WE WERE WRITING THIS, WE DIDN'T WANT TO BE OVERLY BURDENSOME TO DEVELOPMENT FOR SURE.
BUT SO THIS IS THE WAY WE WROTE IT, BUT HAPPY TO TAKE ANY FEEDBACK.
>> IF I WERE A PROPERTY OWNER, I WOULDN'T WANT IT.
IF I OWNED THAT PARKING GARAGE BECAUSE IT COULD BE MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF DAMAGE A PERSON'S LIABILITY INSURANCE IS NOT GOING TO COVER THAT.
THAT'S PROBABLY WHY WE DON'T SEE VERY MANY.
>> WHEN ONE LIGHTS OFF, IT'S SO HOT AND THERE'S CAR RIGHT NEXT TO IT.
>> THE CHIEF, IS THE RISK, THE FIRE RISK WITH CHARGING SPECIFICALLY, OR IS IT JUST PARKING YOUR EV IN A PARKING GARAGE? IT'S ACTUALLY DAMAGED BATTERIES IS THE BIGGEST RISK THERE IS RISK AT THE CHARGING PORT, JUST LIKE THERE'S FLAMMABILITY RISK WHEN YOU'RE FILLING YOUR GAS TANK.
ALTHOUGH IT'S RARE AND MINIMAL, BUT THAT IS WHERE THE MAIN POWER COMES IN, IF THERE'S ANY SURGE OR ANYTHING, AND I'M NOT ELECTRICIAN.
BUT IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT'S A PLACE WHERE IT COULD BE BECAUSE THAT'S A LOT OF CONCENTRATED POWER RIGHT THERE BEING PLUGED IN.
>> THE SENSE OF THE SHUT OFF BECAUSE IF YOU'RE FIGHTING A FIRE AND IT HAPPENS TO BE WITH THE CHARGING PORT, YOU DON'T WANT TO GET ELECTROCUTED.
BUT IF THE RISK OF FIRE WITH AN EV ISN'T SPECIFICALLY WITH CHARGING, THEN IT'S THE SAME DIFFERENCE IF IT'S CHARGING OR JUST PARKED IN A PARKING SPOT.
IT'S THE SAME RISK, OR IS THERE SOMETHING REALLY UNIQUE ABOUT CHARGING THAT WE NEED TO ELEVATE OUR SCRUTINY AND MOVE THOSE CHARGERS OUTSIDE?
>> I THINK WHEN YOU ARE CHARGING AND I DON'T HAVE THE TECHNICAL SPECS, BUT WHEN YOU ARE CHARGING, THERE'S A LOT OF POWER BEING CONCENTRATED RIGHT THERE.
YES, THAT'S A HIGHER RISK OF FIRE OF SOME SORT, ESPECIALLY IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG ELECTRONICALLY OR ELECTRICALLY, EXCUSE ME.
IF THE CAR IS JUST SITTING THERE, THERE'S NOT REALLY A CHANCE OF FIRE UNLESS THAT BATTERY IS DAMAGED.
SOMETIMES ONE DOESN'T KNOW THAT THAT COULD BE DAMAGED, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU RUN OVER A PALLET IN THE ROAD, AND IF IT IMPALES YOUR THOSE BATTERS.
NOW, THEY DO A GOOD JOB OF SEALING THOSE, BUT STILL, WE SEE IT TIME AND AGAIN WHERE A BIG POTHOLE WAS HIT OR SOMETHING IMPALED THAT BATTERY FROM BENEATH, SO YOU JUST DON'T KNOW.
BUT IF ALL CONDITIONS EQUAL AND THE CAR IS JUST SITTING THERE, VERY LOW RISK.
>> I GET THAT IT'S BETTER TO HAVE THE EV CHARGERS OUTSIDE THE BUILDING.
I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT THE PERSON THEY MIGHT BE TRYING TO RECRUIT AS A TENANT FOR ONE OF THESE BUILDINGS THAT MAYBE HAS A NICE EV THAT THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO CHARGE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT I'D WANT TO SAY TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PUTTING THESE CLASS-A BUILDINGS IN THAT.
TAKE AWAY ALL YOUR OPTIONS FOR PUTTING THE EVS IN IF WE HAVE THE RULES ABOUT THE BLANKET AND THE ACCESS THAT MAYBE THAT IS, YOU CAN HAVE YOUR EV CHARGER IN THE BEST PLACE FOR YOUR TENANT, BUT YOU HAVE TO COMPLY WITH SOME SAFETY RULES.
I'M JUST THINKING IT'S NOT JUST SAY BLANKET, NO, BUT YES, WITH CONDITIONS.
>> I THINK THAT COVERS THE EXCEPTION THOUGH.
I THINK WHAT I'M SAYING IS THE OTHER OPTION WAS TO MOVE THEM ALL OUT OF CHARGING OR OUT OF THE GARAGE.
I'M NOT TOTALLY SURE THAT I'M READY TO GO THAT FAR.
BUT THE ONLY THOUGHT WAS IF JUST THE FACT OF EV BEING IN THE GARAGE AT ALL IS A POTENTIAL FIRE RISK.
IS THERE THAT MUCH OF AN UPLIFT, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE RISK WITH THE CHARGING TAKING PLACE?
>> LIKE I SAID, IF WE COULD HAVE THEM TOWARD THE OUTSIDE SO WE CAN GET THERE QUICK.
WE DON'T WANT THEM BURIED UP BEHIND THERE, SO WE CAN'T GET TO THEM OR THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO DO OUR JOB BUT ALSO MINIMIZE THE IMPACT IF THEY'RE SPACING ADJACENT.
MAYBE WE CAN THINK OF SOMETHING ABOUT THE SPACING BETWEEN THOSE AND OTHER CARS.
>> THEY CAN'T BE LOCATED ADJACENT TO EMERGENCY EGRESS STAIRWAYS OR AREAS OF DISCHARGE.
BECAUSE THAT'S BAD. YOU DON'T WANT.
>> HAVE YOU SEEN ANY CHANGES OR MAYBE I DON'T KNOW IF THE STUDIES GO THIS DEEP, BUT BETWEEN SAY A HIGH VOLTAGE DC CHARGING FAST CHARGER VERSUS SAY A LEVEL 2 CHARGER TO A LOWER APRAGE,
[03:05:03]
DOES THAT INCREASE THE RISK OF A FIRE?>> THE LEVEL THREE CHARGERS, CORRECT ME IF I'M WITH THE HIGH ONES, THE BIG DADDIES, IF YOU WILL YEAH, AS THEY STEP UP, ALL THAT STEPS UP AND SO DOES THE POTENTIAL DANGER OF CHARGE?
>> THESE ARE ALL LEVEL 3, IN THESE COMMERCIAL AREAS.
>> I BELIEVE THEY ALL LEVEL 3.
>> THEY HAVE TO DO FAST CHARGE.
>> RIGHT NOW, I THINK WE'VE GOT A MIX.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY ONE STANDARD CHARGER IN TOWN.
THE ONE AT WHOLE FOODS, THAT'S A LEVEL 3.
BUT GENERALLY THE ONES YOU'LL FIND IN PARKING GARAGE IS TYPICALLY OUR LEVEL 2.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS WONDERING IF IT MAKES SENSE TO MAYBE RESTRICT THOSE TO LEVEL TWO IN PARKING GARAGE? RIGHT. THE ONE IN THE CLASS A OFFICE, WHICH IS ON THE SUBGRADE LEVEL IS A LEVEL 2.
IT'S JUST ONE OF YOUR IT'S ALMOST LIKE A HOME CHARGER THAT YOU WOULD GET IN YOUR GARAGE.
BUT WE DID ALL THIS ALSO THINKING TESLAS COMING IN, AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE SUPERCHARGERS.
WE'VE GOT TO PUT SOME REGULATIONS AND SOME PARAMETERS IN PLACE ON THOSE THINGS AGAIN.
>> THIS WILL BE COMING BACK TO YOU WHEN WE ARE READY FOR DOT THE FIRE CODE.
WE'LL TAKE ALL YOUR NOTES AND COME BACK WITH WHAT WE PROPOSE.
>> WITH THE BUNKER GEAR THAT BECOMES UNUSABLE NEEDS TO BE DISPOSED OF BASICALLY, IS THERE A WAY TO GET REIMBURSED FOR THAT?
>> WE HAVE A HAZARDS MATERIALS REIMBURSEMENT THAT WE COULD CHARGE WHOEVER IS AT FAULT, THE INSURANCE, WE CAN.
>> THERE'S NO HAZMAT EXTERIOR PROTECTIVE GEAR THAT COULD GO OVER THE MUCKER GEAR JUST TO PROTECT IT AND JUST PROVIDE THAT LAYER THEN THAT COULD BE DISPOSED OF AND NOTHING LIKE THAT.
THE ONLY THING IS GEAR, WHICH IS THE AIRCRAFT SILVER SUITS.
THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT FIGHT THE AIR AIRCRAFT FIRES.
OR GUYS ARE NOT TRAINED TO WEAR THOSE.
I DON'T KNOW OF ANY OTHER PROXIMITY.
I DON'T KNOW OF ANY OTHER PROXIMITY SUITS LIKE THAT, EXCEPT THOSE.
THANK YOU THEN A LITTLE MORE ON THE CHARGE STATION LOCATION, INDOOR AND OUTDOOR LOCATIONS, R1 AND R2, THAT'S HOTELS, MOTELS.
IS THAT APARTMENTS OR APARTMENTS? BACK IN THE CODE AND OCCUPANCY CLASSES.
THE OTHER THING WE WANTED TO DO IS THE IMPACT PROTECTION.
PARKING LOT, CARS, CHARGERS, WHAT CAN HAPPEN? WE RECOMMEND A NOX POWER BOX TO PROTECT IT FROM PHYSICAL DAMAGE AGAINST IMPACT FROM A MOTOR VEHICLE, AND IT SHOULD BE PROTECTED BY SOME BOLLARDS.
WE THINK, AND WE GOT SOME COSTING HERE TOO. TALKED ABOUT THAT.
THIS IS JUST SPECIFIC IBC CODES AND WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE TO MEET.
THEN THE CHARGING CORE USABLE LENGTH NOT TO EXCEED 25 FEET UNLESS EQUIPPED WITH A CABLE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM THAT'S PART OF A LISTED THING FROM THE ELECTRICAL CODE, AND THAT IT REACHES THE VEHICLE'S CHARGING AND LEN WITH THAT EXCESSIVE SLACK.
I CAN'T GET RUN OVER OR DAMAGED.
THEN WHERE THEY ARE SUBJECT TO IMPACTS, VEHICLE PROTECTION SHOULD BE PROVIDED, INSTALLATION IN A LOCATION NOT SUBJECT TO THOSE IMPACTS SUCH AS A SIDEWALL OR FOUR FEET ABOVE THE FLOOR LEVEL, WHEELBARS, BOLLARDS, OR OTHER APPROVED BARRIERS.
THEN BACK TO THAT ELECTRICAL VEHICLES SHALL NOT BE STORED.
WE TALKED ABOUT THE COG AMENT WAS DAMAGED BATTERIES.
MY FEAR HERE IS DAMAGE ELECTRICAL VEHICLES JUST IN TOTAL, UNLESS THEY'RE BEING SAFE BY THE MANUFACTURER, OR THEY'RE BEING WORKED ON THE REASON FOR THAT IS I HAVE ONE OF THESE BIG FEARS THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A SMALL IMPACT WRECK AND THEY TAKE IT TO BOB'S COLLISION AND IT SITS IN THERE AND THEN IT LIGHTS OFF AND THEN THAT THEN YOU HAVE A STRUCTURE FIRE SOMETHING ELSEWHERE THEY HAVEN'T LOOKED AT IT AND DEEMED THAT TO BE SAFE
[03:10:02]
YET I WANT TO WORK ON THE LANGUAGE A LITTLE BIT THERE TO QUALIFY THAT SECOND BULLET POINT NUMBER TWO DAMAGE VEHICLES THAT ARE BEING REPAIRED, TO SOME SORT OF WAY TO TRY TO DEEM THEM SAFE.IF WE WERE TO TALK ABOUT PUTTING ALL THIS ON A DEVELOPER OR AN OWNER OF A PARKING FACILITY, THAT'S THE COST YOU'RE LOOKING AT.
THE KNOX POWER BOX IS ABOUT $1,500, A BLANKETS ABOUT $1,500.
THEN INSTALLING THOSE BALLARS AND THE CO DETECTORS ARE PRETTY MINIMUM, BUT AGAIN, TO MAYOR POT'S POINT, I WOULD THINK THEY WANT TO PROTECT THEIR INVESTMENT.
THEN THE REST OF THIS IS SIDE BY SIDE, SHOWING YOU WHAT COG IS AND SHOWING YOU WHAT WE JUST WENT OVER IN TERMS OF OUR CHANGES AND RECOMMENDED CHANGES.
WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT YOU MAY BE OKAY WITH THE BLANKETS, BUT FOR FIREFIGHTER USE ONLY, CO DETECTION, SOMETHING THAT'S PALATABLE.
THEN WHERE DID WE LAND ON THE INSIDE VERSUS OUTSIDE OF THEM? DO YOU WANT TO KEEP IT AS IT IS IN TERMS OF HOW WE HAVE IT WRITTEN OR EXCLUDE THEM FROM THE GARAGE ALTOGETHER?
>> WOULD LOVE TO EXCLUDE IT FROM THE GARAGES.
THEY COULD STILL HAVE A COVERED PARKING STRUCTURE, SO THEY'RE NOT COMPLETELY EXPOSED TO THE ELEMENTS.
BUT I THINK THAT'S THE SAFEST THING TO DO.
BUT I DID HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION ABOUT THE CO DETECTORS.
IS THAT JUST CONSIDERED A REDUNDANT ALARM BECAUSE YOU WOULD HAVE PERHAPS A SPRINKLER SYSTEM AND THEN THAT WOULD BE ALARMED OR YOU COULD HAVE SMOKE DETECTION OR OTHER MEANS, THAT WOULD JUST BE REDUNDANT BECAUSE YOU WON'T HAVE CO UNLESS THERE'S A FIRE.
OUR THOUGHT PROCESS THERE WAS WHEN THOSE BATTERIES MAYBE HAVEN'T LIT OFF YET, BUT THEY'RE OFF-GASSING.
THEN THAT WOULD CATCH IT IN EARLIER DETECTION.
>> IS THERE A RISK OF AN IDLING GAS VEHICLE SETTING OFF THAT CO DETECTOR?
>> WHICH IS NOT GOOD UNDER THERE EITHER, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S NOT BEING, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NON-VENTILATED STRUCTURES.
IF WE REQUIRE THEM TO BE OUTSIDE, THAT ALL GOES AWAY, THOUGH.
WHEN PROBLEM SOLVED. WOULD YOU BE INCONVENIENCED IF YOU HAD TO PARK OUTSIDE OF LARGE TO CHARGE YOUR VEHICLE, YOU'D BE OKAY WITH THAT?
>> ABSOLUTELY. ESPECIALLY IF THEY PROVIDE COVER.
>> NOW ONE THING I WOULD BE I THINK YOU MADE A GOOD POINT, WE'VE APPROVED TESLA TO COME TO TOWN.
I'D HATE TO NOW ENACT AN ORDINANCE THAT'S CAN BE OVERLY RESTRICTIVE ON THEM IF THEY HAD A PREVIOUS EXPECTATION NOT NECESSARILY WANT TO CARVE SOMETHING OUT FOR THEM, BUT ALSO DON'T WANT TO FEEL LIKE THERE WAS A BAIT AND SWITCH.
>> WITH DON'T HAVE A GARAGE THEY DON'T HAVE A GARAGE, A PARKING GARAGE.
>> TRUE. IT IS A REPAIR FACILITY. SIDE.
>> WE COULD ACTUALLY PUT SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE FOR EV REPAIR FACILITIES.
THEY'RE ABLE TO DO THESE THINGS BECAUSE THEY'RE LICENSED, THEY'RE THE MANUFACTURER.
THEY CAN HANDLE ANY MITIGATION THAT MAY COME UP.
>> I THINK THAT WOULD BE GOOD. I REALLY GOT TO GIVE KUDOS TO THE GROUP.
JASON AND ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS THAT REALLY CAME TOGETHER IN THE INTEREST OF SAFETY.
I THINK WHAT YOU WILL SEE IS, AGAIN, I FEEL LIKE THIS WAS BORN IN FLOWER MOUNT AND FRISCO, AND YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IT ADOPTED A LOT OF PLACES.
I REALLY BELIEVE THAT. I'M PRETTY PROUD OF WHAT THE TEAM HAS DONE. GOOD JOB.
WELL, IT IS NOW 9:14, AND FLOWER MOUND, THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.